TUCKER CARLSON - MIKE HUCKABEE FULL INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Date: February 18, 2026 (released February 20)
Location: Ben-Gurion Airport diplomatic terminal, Israel
Source: YouTube auto-captions (video ID: XS7itdfgNnU)
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We're about to play you an interview we did  with US Ambassador to Israel Mike
Huckabe two days ago in Israel. In general, it's never worth  talking about the
backstory behind an interview. It's kind of not the point. It makes it about
the  interviewer, not the person being interviewed for one thing. For another,
it's not that interesting  most of the time. Um, and for another, it's kind of
off the record. you know, the other person  hasn't consented to you telling the
story. So, in general, we don't do that. Who'd want to hear  that? Let the
interview speak for itself. But in this case, we want to tell you just a few
things  about how this interview came about because they are pretty interesting,
revealing, and now weirdly  relevant apparently. So, this interview with Mike
Huckabe came about a couple of weeks ago um on  Twitter. One of our producers
showed me, he said something to the effect of, "You're talking  to Middle
Eastern Christians, Tucker Carlson. Maybe you should talk to me. Why don't you
come  do an interview?" And I paused for a minute. I thought in the past about
trying to interview  Mike Huckabe, whom I've known for over 30 years and worked
adjacent to at Fox and I had mixed  feelings about it. Um, mostly because it's
hard if you're me to interview Mike Huckabe because of  just the personal
affect. to my cuckabe is jovial, comes off as friendly. He's a grandfather when 
annoyed. I can be nasty in interviews. And so it's it takes a lot of self-
control to interview  someone like Mike Huckabe. Not not cuz I hate him, but
because it's hard to ask him tough questions  and not come off as a jerk, which
I often am. So, but I thought in this case, yeah, I should  definitely do this.
Um, for a bunch of different reasons. mainly the United States is  moving toward
a big war, a real war with Iran, a regime change war. Um, the biggest war we've 
had since the invasion of Iraq in the spring of 2003. And Israel is driving
that. We are  doing this at the behest, at the demand of the Israeli Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. So, it  seems like now is the time for more
Americans to understand the dynamic between the US and Israel  and to call
attention to that. And for another, Huckabee's behavior in the last year in
Jerusalem  as the ambassador has been very very striking. He famously had a
meeting with the most damaging  spy in American history. Um, and why did he do
that? He hadn't been asked uh by anybody up  until two days ago, why did you do
that? So, I I wanted to be able to ask him that. Um, and so  we accepted and
then began the usual negotiations about when and where the interview would take 
place. And we were constrained because we weren't expecting this. We wanted to
do it quickly, but  we had tons of travel. So, we threw them a date, them being
the American embassy, uh, we can do it  on this date. And they were very
accommodating. And then the question became, well, where do we  do it? And maybe
a Christian holy site. We said, we've got to get in and out really quick. Got 
to be back to do a bunch of other interviews, but we've got this time frame.
They said, "Well,  why don't you do it at the US embassy or maybe we set that?"
Great. US embassy. So, the US embassy  is about an hour 55 minutes from the big
airport in uh Israel, Bengarian. So, we said, "Okay, what  about security?" Now,
at this time, the Israeli government, the prime minister included, were 
attacking me in this show. Netanyahu suggested I was a Nazi, uh, for example.
And so, we  thought, you know, how about security? Obviously, um not because the
Israeli government necessarily  would do something bad, but because there are a
lot of people in Israel who think because they've  been told, you know, that I'm
an anti-semite or a Nazi or want to kill Jews, this kind of crazy 
overstatement. Um all untrue, obviously. Uh but it would be good to have
security. And I should  say, uh having done interviews on six out of seven
continents over 35 years, I'm not very security  conscious at all. never really
feel uncomfortable, but this seemed like a a prudent thing to do.  So, we were
told by the embassy spokesman, "No, we're not going to provide security." And
so, we  said, "Okay, I guess we'll get private security, but could we get
someone from the embassy to  ride in the car with us from the airport to the
interview?" And we were told, "No, could  we get what they call a control
officer, just an American with us, an offic, you know, in  an official capacity
as a embassy employee with us?" No. quote, "For legal reasons, we can't do 
that." So, I thought, "Well, that's very strange." And then they said, "But
instead, we're turning  you over to the Ministry for Foreign Affairs, MFA, and
they're going to arrange everything in  Israel." Well, this was within 24 hours
of the Deputy Foreign Minister, Sharon Haskell, releasing  a video calling me an
anti-semite and an enemy of Israel. This was the person who the embassy was 
telling us was going to handle all of our travel. So it was at this point that I
just called I  called the spokesman from for the US embassy in Israel and I said
okay I'm an American citizen  responding to an invitation from the American
ambassador to Israel and by the way I'm the son of  US ambassador so I have some
sense not an expert obviously but I have some sense of how this works  and I
think that the US ambassador has discretion to send somebody from his office to
the airport  to accompany someone in. I think that's right. And if it's not
right, tell me what law you're talking  about, what legal reason you're talking
about that would prevent that. And now you're sending me over  to a government
official who's been calling me a Nazi. That's the person in charge of getting
us  to the embassy. Like, what is going on here? And the embassy spokesman,
who's totally nice, said,  "Well, this was the decision of someone called David
Brownstein. He's the DCM, the number  two guy in the embassy." And I said,
"Well, put him on a text exchange. Like, what is going on  here?" And so
Branstein got on and didn't answer the question, but basically said, well,
okay,  let's just do the interview at the airport in the diplomatic reception
area at the airport. Okay. I  said, um, we're going to be flying in from Europe,
uh, and we had to be in and out really quickly,  so at great expense, we
chartered a plane, which I never do cuz I'm cheap. Um,  but we did. And so then
I said to them, "Okay, I want to send you uh the flight  information, tail
number, flight number, route, um and I want you to pass that on to the Israeli 
military just so you know they don't mistake us for an Iranian drone or
something." I mean, not to  be paranoid, but again, this is probably the most
violent country in the world, Israel. Is there a  country in the world where a
higher percentage of the population has held a gun or shot someone?  I mean, I
don't know the answer, but this is a country uh famously waging a sevenfront
war  with all of its neighbors, you know. So, this is also the country that
bombed the USS  Liberty knowing, we know this from NSA intercepts, that it was
an American ship. So, don't, you know,  just send the military our flight
information and uh, you know, we can all just sort of know it's on  the record
and we can all calm down a little bit. No, they said the US embassy said, "No,
this  is your flight is not a a matter of concern to the Israeli military." I
said, "Okay, now  now you're making me uncomfortable. Isn't the airspace of
Israel the purview of the Israeli  military? Aren't they in charge of
maintaining the integrity of their airspace? When you fly over  the country of
Israel or any country, its military keeps track of you because that's their job.
So,  why wouldn't you send our flight information to the Israeli military?
You're making me nervous.  I sent this exchange. I took a a screenshot of it and
sent it to a bunch of people, including in the  US government um because I'm not
a paranoid person and I'm not a jumpy person. I said, "Is this weird  behavior?"
Yeah, it's really weird behavior. All of them said that. So, I got pretty
aggressive and  just said, "Look, you got to do this." Okay. and they to their
credit got back to us and said yes  we will we will do that but I just thought
that was completely bizarre and menacing by the way  now at the same time and I
think this is relevant certainly it goes to motive I was attempting to  set up a
meeting as I have been for the past 3 months with the prime minister of Israel
Benjamin  Netanyahu who I've dealt with a lot in the past um and who denounced
me as a Nazi uh in public  a member of the woke reich And why was I trying to do
that? Not an interview. I knew he wouldn't  sit for an interview. Um but I
wanted just to meet with him in person. One, to show that I'm willing  to go to
Israel. I don't hate Israel as a country. Um but two, just to to say directly to
him, this  is bad. This should be deescalated. This kind of rhetoric doesn't
help anybody. Calling people  calling me specifically a Nazi and an anti-semite
when you know that I'm not. By the way, if I  was, I would just admit it. I've
said many times, I think anti-semitism is immoral. It's against  my religion,
just as hating any group on the basis of their bloodline is immoral. So, the
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description, or you can scan the QR code to claim this outstanding offer. Um,
and  so I really pushed hard for this meeting and I called a lot of people who
know him and who are  in regular contact with him. In fact, I went to go see
some of those people directly. Please,  can you help me get a sit down for 5
minutes with Benjamin Netanyahu and I probably called or  met with six, seven,
eight, maybe more people on this question. People in official capacities, 
people in the Israeli government. I know I know a number of people in the
Israeli government,  people in Israel, a friend of mine in California who knows
him. I mean, I really really tried and I  did so for two reasons. Um, one,
because there was a threat to my family, uh, the Israeli government  and
Netanyahu himself tried to punish two members of my family. I won't be more
specific, but  actually punish two members of my family because he, as he has
said in public many times, believes  in blood guilt. Amalecch. You know, when
someone commits a crime against you, you punish not  just him, but his family,
his bloodline. There's no idea that's less western than that, more  anti-
Christian than that. Christians reject that. Um Netanyahu doesn't. That's why
he's talking  about Amalcch. And he was going after my family, literally. Uh so
I felt very threatened by that.  But moreover, I think it's bad for my country
to have people using that kind of language. Round  them up, bring them to the
camps, gas chambers, Nazis, anti-semitism. It scares the heck out of  people. It
makes people crazy and hysterical. And certainly in my case, none of that is
true. I hate  collective punishment. I hate attacking people on the basis of
their bloodline. I hate anti-semitism  and anti-white racism and all of this,
any kind of racism, period. And I've said that a lot. So using  that kind of
language against someone who is not fundamentally your enemy who just in my case
I  want Christians in areas controlled by Israel to be treated with dignity to
have rights and I don't  want the US government involved in a war a regime
change war with Iran. Those are my priorities and  I've said them out loud. I
have no secret agenda. So to attack me as a Nazi for saying that suggests  a
total unwillingness um to compromise. You know, anyone who doesn't agree with us
100% must be  destroyed. His family must be attacked. My family um and must be
written off as a Nazi. Well,  when you do that, it makes people hysterical. It
increases the temperature to a point that,  you know, someone's going to get
hurt if you keep talking that way. And it's just bad. It's bad  for the United
States. it's bad for the world. So, I wanted to deliver that message. Um, I 
finally wind up wound up talking to a guy called Yorum Hazonei who is an Israeli
who  famously organizes uh the American conserv national conservatism
conferences. And I said to  him, look, you're having a national conservatism
conference in Jerusalem uh this summer. You  asked me to speak at the first, I
think the first national conserv conservatism conference  in the United States
and I did. Obviously, I believe in national conservatism, America first.  I
think every nation should put its own people first. That's why you have
governments. Um, and  I would like to speak at this one. And moreover, I would
like you to ask your friend Benjamin  Netanyahu to meet with me. And we had this
sort of long back and forth. And it was, "No, you cannot  speak at the National
Conservatism Conference because you're an anti-semite." "No, I'm not." I  said,
"Yes, you are," he said. And I said, "Well, I really would like to speak to BB
to kind of  deescalate this." and he said, uh, it would not be in his political
interest to meet with you. That's  almost verbatim what he said. Uh, therefore,
no. So then I realized, you know, you're dealing with  people who are
unreasonable, who are inflexible, who are in fact fanatical. Uh, and then add
to  that, of course, that my tax dollars are paying them. You know, it's all
pretty distressing. So  that was the backdrop um behind our very brief and
highly intense trip to Israel. So we show up  on Wednesday, fly in from Europe
again at great expense. Um and show up at the diplomatic terminal  of Bengurian
airport where this interview is going to take place which is bizarre in itself.
Filthy  building. The windows are so dirty in the terminal you can't see out
them barely. There's like  exposed drywall. The whole thing is depressing and
grim. There's litter outside. Like what is this?  This is the diplomatic
terminal in Israel. Um I thought that was very strange having been in a lot  of
diplomatic terminals. I've never seen a rattier one. We go in and Huckabe's
there and of course  he's totally friendly as he always is. um very very
friendly guy and uh cheerful and we sort of  chat and the whole place is filled
with these guys in t-shirts, thuggish looking guys in t-shirts who  are some
kind of security. So we do the interview, you're about to watch it. Um it's very
long at  2 and a half hoursish and I try my hardest to be friendly. Uh I think I
kind of succeeded. You can  judge for yourself. Um, but you I really got the
sense and again you can decide as you watch it  that uh Huckabe was not well
able to answer any of the questions um but also not really in charge.  You
really got the feeling of a guy sort of trying his best to to repeat the talking
points but very  constrained like unable to say certain things not because those
things might harm the interest  of the US government. He was happy to attack,
for example, the US military and say they're more  brutal than the Israeli
military. Okay. Um but unwilling to say certain things because they might 
reflect poorly on the Israeli government. And you sort of thinking about this
for a second. You're  like, "Wait, you're the US ambassador. You're our
representative to a foreign country. Why is your  red line criticism of that
country? Shouldn't you be representing us?" And it was very obvious he  was
representing the Israelis. Obvious. And again, you can judge for yourself. But
anyway, so we do  this interview. It was cordial. And at the end, uh, we're set
to fly out. We have a time. We  have to get out. And the plane is sitting right
outside. And we're ready to go. And for some  reason, the Israelis still have
our passports. There are five of us um there. And four of us  are flying out on
this plane. One's flying out commercial with our gear. So my business partner 
and I were standing there. We we've never left the airport, never went anywhere.
But our two  producers have spent the night in the night before in Tel Aviv, and
they're called into rooms  and given the third degree. Now, keep in mind,
they're about to get on a plane and leave. In  fact, we're late. We have to get
out of there. We have a slot to get out. And security, whoever this  is, won't
won't let them go. So, I don't really know what's going on at this point. I'm
like,  "Where are our guys? We got to get out of here." So, one of them comes
out and he says, "That  was the weirdest experience of my life. They asked me
questions about the interview.  Who did you speak to?" Keep in mind, this was
like 8 ft from where we did the  interview. Well, the US ambassador Mike
Huckabe, what did you talk about? Why did you ask those  questions? Was it a
hostile interview? Of course, everything in the diplomatic terminal is taped. 
Everything in Israel is taped. It's a police state. It's a surveillance state.
Obviously, you  go to Israel, they put software on your phone. Everybody knows
this, okay? They're constantly  spying on you more than probably any other
country. And so they know the answers to these  questions, but they're asking my
producer like, "Where do you work? How many people work there?  Do you go to the
office? Where is the office? What are their names?" They're doing like an intel 
op and humiliation exercise on my producer. This isn't security. We're leaving
right now. And  they're holding his passport. The interrogator is holding the
passport in his hand as he's asking  these questions. So he's telling me this
and I'm I said, "This is the most outrageous thing I've  ever heard. Puckabe's
gone by this point. You're an American citizen who's just had a conversation 
with the US ambassador and some thug is demanding details of that conversation
and I hope you didn't  answer." And he's like, "No, I I didn't. I don't know
what to say." Meanwhile, our last guy, our  the youngest man who was traveling
with us, our last producer is still in a room being questioned.  So, I pull over
one of the guys and said, "I I we got to get out of here." So, I don't know 
what this is about. It's outrageous. And you know, there's nothing I can do
about this point, but we  got to go. And this woman comes up to me and says,
"Look, let's just go. We're going to bring you to  the plane and he'll come
later." I said, "No, it's my producer. He's being interrogated. ask totally 
over-the-top, fully inappropriate questions that have nothing to do with
security at all. You know,  pull up your website, show us your text exchanges
with other people on your staff, what what are  your politics like? And again,
what did you say to the US ambassador and what did he say back to you?  Those
are not relevant questions if you're trying to keep your country secure. Those
are intel  questions and they're over the top. And I said, I want this guy out
now. Let's go. You know, we got  to go. Oh, and they said, "No, no, just leave
him here. We'll bring him to the plane later." Twice  they told me that. Just
leave your guy behind. No, I don't think so. So, I was enraged by this. Um,  get
on the plane, we get a text from a reporter who somehow knew that this had
happened. I have  no idea how. I had no interest in publicizing it, actually.
Um, there was, you know, a a long  trail that showed that the US embassy had
been coordinating against us in a in a public relations  battle before we even
got there. You know, they were leaking that we we demanded to do it  at the
airport because we were afraid to go into Israel. We're cowards. Okay. We're
cowards, right?  Um, and so I just said to the reporter by text, you know, they
pulled my guys into a room  interrogating them. This is outrageous, etc., etc.,
etc. The interesting thing is I never  heard from Huckabe or anybody to this
moment from the US embassy about what security did to my  producers. They didn't
ask us and instead Huckabe went out and called me a liar. So, it raises again 
the question, who exactly is Huckabe working for? We're American citizens in a
foreign country.  He's our ambassador. He represents our country. We pay his
salary, but he's taking the side of the  foreign government without even calling
to say, "Hey, what happened to you at the airport? Did  you get hassled? Did
your guys get hassled?" No. He just immediately repeats their lies. without 
even consulting us. So like what are we looking at here? We're looking at the
reality which is if  you're an American in Israel, you can be certain that your
government will take the side of the  Israeli government and not your side. And
really, is that so different from the experience of  Americans in the United
States? Can you be sure that your government will take your side over the 
Israeli government? No, of course not. will always take the Israeli government's
side over yours. And  that's the core problem. Even if if you support a war with
Iran, I think we really the most pressing  issue for Americans is that we kill
the Ayatollah or whatever, you still have a fair expectation  that your
government because it is yours, you pay for it. It exists to serve you and for 
no other reason. and you have an expectation that your government will take your
side against  a foreign government. But the daily lived reality, the obvious
truth visible to every single American  is that's the opposite of reality. In
fact, if you criticize Israel in your country, your  government will work to
censor you. If there's a standoff between you and BB, you know whose side  your
government's going to take? BB's side. That is not sustainable. That is too
humiliating. It's  too clearly an inversion of the natural order. Your
government exists for you, not for a foreign  government. But that's not how we
live in this country or in Israel. So that's what we learned.  And one last
thing, the Israelis apparently went may probably with the help of Mike Huckabe
went  to uh the surveillance tape inside the diplomatic terminal and pulled some
clip and they're of  course getting all their little bots online to promote it
of me with my arm around somebody to  show that actually I'm lying about what
happened. That person was our driver who drove  us from the plane to the
terminal, a short drive. Very nice guy, good guy, Israeli  guy. And um right
when we arrived and he said, "Could I get a picture?" Of course. He's a  nice
man. So I just put my arm around him, took a picture. That's what that is. That
was  before the interview. It was before uh our producers were hassled by the
thugs um and asked  ridiculous questions. It was before any of this happened. So
that's just uh another installment  of the propaganda war. I thought we'd give
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off. So, with that, here is our interview with Ambassador Mike Huckabe. I hope
it's informative.  Ambassador, thank you very much for having us, for inviting
me. I was grateful to be invited.  Thank you. I I was grateful cuz I don't like
all the the name calling. I've engaged in some of  it. I want to apologize for
that. I don't but I in general, I don't think people should be going 
immediately to motive calling each other Nazis or anti-semmites. I said I hate
the Christian  Zionists. I lost control of myself. Of course, I don't. I've
apologized for that. I  have problems with my anger. And so, I just want to
apologize to you since you are a  Christian Zionist. You and I have known each
other for over 30 years. Over 30 years. That is totally  true. Back when you
were in Little Rock. So, yes, the newspaper. It's why I wanted us to have a 
conversation, talk to each other and not about each other. And I appreciate very
much you're  coming here to of course. And I'm only staying a couple hours
unfortunately because I kind of  shoehorned this in. But I hope that I'll be
back soon and I hope that I can come back soon cuz I  want to I actually like
despite what you may hear, I actually like the country. I've been here a lot 
and there are a lot of things I love about it and um and I want to talk to
people in it for like  a week. Good. And get a better sense of it. Um so I want
to ask you, everyone I've talked to in  in preparation for this has said the
same thing. Jonathan Pard like can exp I'm just gonna show the  the name to you
and have you explain. No, I'm glad you asked. You know, interestingly, there's
been  a lot of things about it. You're the first person who has asked me about
it, which I find amazing.  So, I'm glad you did. Really? Yeah. The very first.
Well, it's better to like hear it. Sure.  I met Jonathan Pard two times. Once I
was making a speech in Jerusalem. This has been a few years  ago. His wife was
still alive at the time. And he was there. and someone introduced me to him and 
his wife. I said hello to them. That was it. Hi, nice to meet Esther, his wife.
And that was it.  I went and made my speech and I left. Um later his wife passed
away uh here in Israel. And I  sent him a note and just said, "I'm sorry to hear
about your wife." I remember meeting her at  the hotel and uh sorry to hear it.
He then asked, "Could he come and see me?" He wanted to come and  thank me for
being kind to him. Um, he came to the embassy. I think we met for maybe 30
minutes. We  had a nice, pleasant visit. The funny thing was the New York Times
reported that it was a secret  meeting. Tucker, if you've ever been to the US
Embassy, you would know there's no such thing  as a secret meeting at the US
Embassy. There are cameras everywhere. You walk through Marines,  you walk
through security, you walk through the front office, and there's a dozen or more
people  that are going to check you out when you come. And before you get there,
you're going to have to give  us your passport information. You're going to have
to be vetted and screened and all of this stuff.  So, the idea that it was
secret was ludicrous. The whole idea is, look, Jonathan Pard did something  that
was terribly wrong. Um, he sold secrets. He shouldn't have done it. He was
sentenced to 30  years in prison and spent 30 actually was I think yeah I think
he was sentenced to maybe more than  30 years but he spent 30 years in prison.
Most people convicted of something similar uh which  was one count I believe
would have spent two to four but he spent 30. I don't have a problem with  him
spending 30 because I think what he did was despicable. I'm not defending
anything about what  he did, but even people like the former director of the
CIA, um, a number of other senators  on the Senate Foreign Relations of the
Senate Intel Committee said that he should be allowed  to leave and move to
Israel if he wanted to. So, it to me was not as big a deal that I had this 
basically courtesy meeting. He wanted to thank me for being nice to him when his
wife died. That's  pretty much the you advocated for his release when you ran
for I remember it in 2011 long before he  had served 30 years. And I agree with
you that there are a lot of people languishing in prison,  you know, in our
country and in this country, many countries, um, you know, for longer periods 
than they deserve. And I think it's a Christian impulse to to want to see them
free. But this  was the greatest traitor in modern American history who sold our
battle plans sold our battle  plans against the Soviet Union, our main enemy in
the Cold War to the Israeli government, which  according to our Reagan CIA
director, Bill Casey, then gave them to the Soviet Union. So this was  the most
profound betrayal of the United States in my lifetime. Why advocate for that
guy's  release before he serves his full sentence? If that were the case in
2011, it would have  been because I had a number of friends that uh suggested
that he had more than served time  and he didn't want to live in the US anymore.
He wanted to live in Israel and uh but my association  with him again I had
never met him until I met him in Jerusalem at a hotel. That was the first time 
I had ever encountered him. I'm friends with a million bad people or I've talked
to a million  bad people. I'm sitting here with you. I mean, come on. I mean,
Jesus hate with tax collectors.  So I trust me I am do not judge people who are
friends or know or enjoy the company of immoral  people because it's not an
endorsement of their immoral behavior. Pard is different I think once  you
become US ambassador the representative of the president of the United States in
the United  States of America in a foreign country and then you invite not only
the most damaging betrayer  in our lifetimes but also a guy who continues to
advocate for betrayal. So he gave an interview,  as I know you know, in 2021 to
Israeli media in which he said, "I would encourage Jewish  Americans with
security clearances to spy for MSAD against their own country, the United 
States, because," and I'm pretty much quoting him, "All Jews should have dual
loyalty." Mhm. That's a  I mean, that's not repentance. That's not someone who
feels bad about what he did. That's someone  who's encouraging American Jews to
betray their country. That's pretty heavy, don't you think? Oh,  I do and I
disagree with that wholeheartedly. I I think let's remember it was President
Trump who  probably facilitated his uh departure and uh I'm certainly supportive
of President Trump. I think  you are. And Per's not. He called him a madman
after your meeting. That's why I say Per is is  not for me the real issue. It
was the fact that he did something that was despicable. I'm not denying  that.
Of course he did. And he paid dearly for it. 30 years in prison and he should
have that. That's  what he should have done. There's no no question about that.
But why meet with him in the US  embassy? Your colleagues said they were
shocked. They said who were the colleagues that said they  were shocked. Quoted
on background in the New York Times. I think the meeting was in August. I  this
could all be fake. That's why I'm asking you. Well, the same New York Times said
it was a secret  meeting. And I'm telling you there's no such thing as a secret
meeting in the US embassy. Do you see  why the US ambassador hosting a convicted
betrayer of his own country who's encouraging Americans  to continue to betray
their country would seem shocking? Well, I would say that it wasn't that  I you
make it sound like I'm hosting a meeting. I simply met with him. I meet with
people all the  time. Some of You just walk in without a No, they have to have
an appointment. Of course they do.  Oh, so it is hosting him then, I think.
Well, I don't know if it was hosting, but it was certainly  he was able to come
to the US embassy to have a meeting at his request. I did, and frankly, I  don't
regret it. I I met with a lot of people over the course of the time I've been
here, and we'll  meet with a lot more. Um, that's it. So, if you spend the
evening at my house, you are guaranteed  to find yourself in a conversation
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There have been um Americans in prison in Israel. There have also been and there
continue to be  dozens and dozens and dozens of sex offenders, accused sex
offenders from the United States who  fled to Israel, including one recently, an
Israeli government official who was caught trying to  molest a 15-year-old girl
and fled to Israel and is not going back to the United States to stand  charges
for attempted molestation of a child. Have you advocated for the Israeli
government to return  him to the United States? I'm not familiar with that case.
It has not come to us at the embassy.  So, I'm not aware. Is this the person in
Nevada? That is correct. Okay. County, I would imagine.  So, yeah, I heard about
it, but I heard about it through open source media. It was never something  that
was presented to us, but I would have no problem with uh him being extradited
back to  the US. You're the president's and our country's representative in the
state of Israel. So, I think  it would fall to you to advocate with your friend,
the prime minister, to say, "Wait a second. We  have a very close relationship.
We're obviously the single largest source of outside funding for  this country.
How can you take an accused child molester and shield him from American
justice?  Send him back to the United States?" Have you ever had that
conversation? No. Because the prime  minister would not be the proper person.
That may be right. pardon my ignorance but that would deal  with an extradition.
It would go through their uh court system and so the prime minister is separate 
very similar to what we have in the US where there is a separation of powers. So
it would go through  uh something other than the prime minister. Have you
advocated to the courts to judges to anybody  in the Israeli justice system?
There has never been a request for me to engage in that. I I  would be happy to
do it if if the White House sent a message to me. I do work for the president.
I  serve it as pleasure. If anyone at the White House were to say to me, would
you please go and make a  case for it? But probably if that were to happen, it
wouldn't come through the embassy as much as it  would likely come from the
Department of Justice at the US in DC. They would make the request. They  might
involve us, but they very likely would not. Does it seem strange to you that
people accused of  child molestation in the United States are allowed to have
refuge in our within the borders of our  closest ally? How? That doesn't make
sense to me. Well, I would say that if you've molested  an American child,
shouldn't you be required to It's an allegation. Let's be clear. One of  the
things about our system of jurist prudence, you're innocent until you're proven
guilty beyond  a reasonable doubt. So if the charges are there, should he be
extradited? I would say so. The  charges are there. Yeah. Okay. So they should
be, but that's a Justice Department decision and  they're the ones who should be
pursuing it. To my knowledge, they haven't. They certainly haven't  engaged the
US embassy over. Why would the Israeli government harbor fugitives from justice
in the  United States? I'm not sure that there dozens and dozens and dozens. In
fact, there's an Israeli  group that keeps track of them that is dedicated
Jewish Israeli group dedicated to combating the  molestation of children and
keeps a long list and any you can look it up and I would I hope  you're not
saying that you think the Israelis support the molestation of children.
Obviously,  I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the Israeli government allows
shields Yeah. accused child  from justice in I'm not sure I could say that
that's something that is provable. I don't know.  But I am not aware that the
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you a And I just want to  make sure that I pronounce this this man's name
correctly. It's Tom, I believe, Alexanderich. Um,  I think that's right. And
I've written it down, but of course my handwriting is so terrible I  can't uh
read it. But yes, he is an Israeli, I believe, cyber security official who was 
at a conference in Las Vegas last year and was caught up in a sting uh designed
to catch  people soliciting sex from children. He was one of a number of people
arrested for this. He  was arraigned and charged and then 2 days later he fled
to Israel and did his first hearing by  Zoom. He was allowed for some reason to
leave for a foreign country having already been charged  for a attempted
molestation of a child and he remains here now and the is and there have been 
many news stories about this and I just wonder if you would ask the Israeli
government to send  to put him on a plane and send him back to face justice for
attempting to molest an American  child. It it doesn't seem complicated. No, I
wouldn't mind doing that, but I want to find out  if the Justice Department in
the US has already sought to extradite him. Is there anything in  process? I
don't know. Why wouldn't they seek to extradite? I have no idea. That's a
question for  the Justice Department. I have many questions for the Justice
Department. Like, why are millions of  Epstein files still classified? Why do
you think that is? I have no idea. I haven't kept up with  that. I've never met
the man. I don't know him. You haven't kept up with the Epstein disclosure?  I
mean, only from a distance. I'm 6,000 miles but there's no question that he had
extensive  contact with CIA. I think you said it a turning point event.
Everybody knows Jeffrey Epstein. I  said everyone thinks and it turns out
everyone was right that he did have I'm not sure everyone was  right or everyone
thinks. Okay, but you said that I was lying and I don't want to make this about
I  don't think I said you were lying, Tucker. I don't recall. I'm just saying
why don't we release  all the files and then we don't need to guess. I got no
problem with that. Go ahead. it. Well,  because you weighed in on it and said
that this was not true when of course I said there was no  evidence. Well,
there's quite a bit of evidence, but you haven't apparently bothered to read
any  of the files. Is that what you're saying? I have not read the Epstein
files. Apparently, you have  Well, they're on the internet. But when you say
that there's that everybody knows that Jeffrey  Epstein was a massage, that
everyone believes that. I don't think everybody does. I don't know.  Oh, well,
everyone knows that he had contact with, and by the way, not just Israeli
intelligence,  American intelligence, which is more much more distressing for
me. I'm not Israeli. I'm American.  I don't want my government having any
contact with someone like Jeffrey Epste. So, the shame neither  is on the United
States, as far as I'm concerned, just to be totally clear about that.
Everyone's  very sensitive about the Israel connection, not at all sensitive
about the US connection,  which I find very revealing. We should care about what
our government does first, I think. But since  you weighed in on it and said
there's no evidence, I'm surprised that since that evidence has been  open to
the public for a month, since you've already weighed in publicly on this
question,  that you've made no effort to evaluate that evidence. Why is that?
I've just told you I was  certainly not aware that there were some specific uh
allegations. I knew about the former prime  minister um but I don't know him.
I'm not sure I ever met him in my many times. You know, I've  been to Israel
over a hundred times since 1973. The first time I came here was 1973, July. And 
uh that's almost 53 years of coming and going to this country. So, I know the
country well. I know  a lot of people here, but I don't know everything. And I
don't know everybody, but I do know a lot  of people. Of course. No. And I and I
can see your love for it. And I I think that's great.  I but I'm talking about
the US government and its responsibility to you know there's a lot of  complaint
about conspiracy theories and everyone you know he's a hater everyone's
assigning motive  but there's a way to end these conversations very quickly with
facts and I'm highly confused by  have you brought this up to the president? Uh
no I don't I don't work for him. I've said this  many times. You don't work for
him, but you you go to the White House and you see people there. You  and JD
Vance are very good friends. So, have you brought this up to them? Because I
have brought  this up in public. It's not on my portfolio, but apparently it's
highly very strongly on your  mind and I'm a significant concern for me. Should
be for everybody. But if well there's an there  is a charged child molester. But
I'm saying if you are very involved in the details of this and  you think it's
the US government that's hiding and shielding somebody then bring it up to the 
people. But you don't I don't think that I know it because the justice
department has said we have  millions of documents we're not releasing. Why are
they not releasing them? I I'm asking you as a  US government official. Well,
but a government official at the embassy in Jerusalem that has not  one thing to
do with the Justice Department and what they're investigating on any given day
unless  it involves and I don't want to argue or talk in circles, but you were
the one who brought it up  and said it's absolutely not true. I was only
responding to what I heard you say. Okay. But now  you know there's evidence and
we can settle this debate. you haven't looked at the evidence and  you're not
pushing for the release of the total corpus of evidence and I'm confused because
I want  to believe that your goal is to get to the truth and the fastest way to
do that is by releasing  the evidence. Don't you think you suggest that I can
release the evidence? I'm suggesting you  could call for it right now. Well, I
fine call for it. I would let's let's have it all open. I  thought it was being
all opened up for everything. Once it's open, I hope you'll read it because 
it's it's really interesting and then it puts to rest a lot of the the debate
and it ends the  name calling because we can say here it is right there and we
don't have to call people names. We  can just assess the documents. Let me ask
you, would you bring it up? I hope you will bring it  up to people at the White
House. I've brought I've brought I'm bringing it up right now. I'm  bringing it
up now and I'm asking I just want to say this one last time as the US ambassador
to  Israel. I hope that you will make a formal request to the Israeli government
to send every accused  sex offender in this country back to the United States to
face justice. And I don't understand  why that hasn't been done. I I'm confused.
Well, we'll try to clear up all the confusion that we  have. Well, if someone's
been accused of trying to molest a child, I think it's then then  certainly and
I'll check with the Justice Department because it is a DOJ issue and it would 
be handled through DOJ the US to the court systems in Israel. That's how it
would be handled. But the  first step is the Israeli government saying yes, we
will allow you to extradite this person  back. The person is being shielded by
the government. That's why the person's here.  That's why he fled here, so he
wouldn't have to stand trial for trying to molest a child.  I want to get to the
as I said at the outset, I said something awful that I regret that my wife 
barked at me about. Um, I lashed out at Christian Zionists and evangelicals and
I'm just want to say  again that I'm sorry. Uh, I've always liked them because
they're pro-life and they're also really  nice people. So, for the third time,
I'm sorry that I said that. I think part of my problem was  I don't understand
the theology and you are not a fake Baptist minister. You're an actual
minister.  You had a church for many years. You're an actual theologian. So, and
I mean this with sincerity.  I hear people say those who bless Israel will be
blessed. I know it's a reference to Genesis.  I don't understand the connection
between that concept and modern Israel and the geopolitical  world. And so I'm
going to stand back and and let's first define because you know from my days  as
a debater in high school and college one of the things I knew you didn't start
the debate till you  defined the terms. Amen. Let's define the terms. Thank you.
What is what is a Christian Zionist?  What does that mean to you? What does it
mean? I don't know. It's the people who call me a Nazi  for asking what Israel
means. I mean that's kind of my I don't even know. But here's the point. If  you
say a Christian Zionist is a person who has a brain virus and is guilty of
heresy, that's  a pretty big charge. I know. I shouldn't have made it. I
shouldn't have made it. I made it out  of anger and ignorance. And and I'm
Christian, I think we can agree, is somebody who follows  Jesus Christ. Exactly.
Has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, believed in his death,  burial,
resurrection, has repented of one's sins, and they've accepted him as one
savior. Was that  fair? Christian. Define that Zionist. A Zionist simply means a
person who believes that the Jewish  people have a right to have a homeland
where they have security and safety. Did you believe that  the Jews have a right
to live in Israel? Do you believe that Jews have a right to live in Israel?  I
that would be a Zionist. That's all a Zionist is. I have a million questions
about what all  of those terms mean. Yeah. But conceptually, I wish Israel no
harm. I don't want to see I'm  very You want them to have a a a place where they
can live with safety. Let me So I I saw this  recently in an extremely telling
exchange between the lieutenant governor of Texas who I know and  I've always
liked and a woman I don't know, never met who's on the Religious Liberty
Commission  or something. And she said, "I'm a Catholic, but I'm not a Zionist."
and they had this ferocious  exchange and he kept saying and everyone on the
panel seemed to keep saying you have to believe  in Israel's right to exist
which I've never kind of questioned just for the record but it did  raise two
questions I think are really important and I hope you'll answer them one is
where does  that right come from I would say it comes from essentially you could
say it comes from the Bible  I would say that it does but it comes also from a
long iteration of historical precedents going to  the Alford Declaration of
1917. It comes from the League of Nations 1927. It comes from the United 
Nations 1947. The Declaration of Independence of the Israel State in May of
1948. They were  immediately attacked. They won the war. They were attacked
again in 1956. They won the war. They  were attacked again in 1967 by five
countries. They won the war. They were attacked again in  1973 in the Yam Kipar
war. They won the war. The point is, does Israel have a right to exist?  They
also had wars in 1982 in Lebanon. They've had two of those. They've had uh in I
was there. Uh  no, I'm very familiar with the modern history of the state. Okay.
Pretty familiar, I think. And  I've been a Zionist simply means somebody who
believes that Israel has a right to exist. Now,  the question is, do you believe
Israel has a right to exist? I guess. I mean, I want Israel to exist.  Well, no,
but I want to know what that means. So, like, do other countries have a right
to  exist? Well, they do exist. Do they have a right to exist? You keep saying
Israel has a  right to exist. And I want to know what other countries have. They
have a legal right because  every international body in the last 100 years has
said the Jewish people have a right to their  indigenous home. But that's a
legal right. Do they have a biblical right? I would say that yes, but  you may
say they don't. I don't know. I'm actually sincerely interested in finding out
what you  mean by a biblical right. But first to the legal right. Does any other
country on the planet have  the same right that Israel has to exist? Well, you
could say does Jordan have a right to exist  when it was Trans Jordan and the
Brits came and divided up the Middle East and they gave some  land to Jordanians
and they gave some land to the Saudis and they gave some land uh to various 
Middle Eastern countries and it was all carved up and the French gave Lebanon
its right to exist.  Do they have a right to exist? Do they? Well, why not?
Okay. So, that's my So, every country,  does the US have a right to exist? I'm
asking you. Okay. And I'm telling you, I think the US has a  right to exist.
Okay. We came here. We came there. We're in Israel now talking. But does the US
have  a right to exist? Does anyone question whether we have a right to exist? I
don't. Yeah. But, but I  of course I'm for America, you know. Good for you. But
I So every current country on the map has the  same right to exist that Israel
has. Is that what you're saying? I think what we're saying is that  when a
country has established itself and it is following international law, it has
been deemed  by numerous bodies that it is indigenous to its homeland as Israel
is. This is its homeland. It  goes back 3,800 years to the time of Abraham. It's
not that. Well, hold on. Now I'm getting  the Jewish people just showed up here
in 1948 and said we're going to we're going to have some  Hold on. So those are
two different tracks and I just want to make sure that we separate them so I 
understand each one separately. So you're saying there's the modern legal
framework and so you  said a country that abides by international law has a
right to exist. I would say that that is a  part would it be would the inverse
be true that a country that does not abide by international law  forfeits its
right to exist? not necessarily if it has the capacity to stay and make its case
known,  but there have been Jewish people in this land, this very land for 3800
years. Okay. So, but  you're saying as the modern nation state with borders and
a military and a kessid and just all  the kind of trappings of a modern country,
all of which I support, that country has every country on  the planet has the
same right as Israel to exist because it does exist. Is that what you're I'm 
just trying to understand the concept here. Well, I think what we're trying to
get to is Christian  Zionism. And you've taken this way off the road here. I
know that I have. I don't mean to.  Um, Christian Zionism is a separate thing,
but I just keep hearing people say Zionism is the  belief. That's the
fundamental argument that's going on. Does Israel have a right to live  in their
indigenous ancient historical land, a land that has been affirmed throughout 
international organizations, a land that has direct ties to the Jewish people. I
just want  to know if this is a universal principle. I guess that's what I'm
getting at because if it's not  then it's meaningless to me because as a
Christian I believe in universal principles. Something is  right for everyone or
it's wrong for everyone. I don't we don't believe in special cases. Question. 
If the Jews didn't have this land, would the Jews have a right to any land? I I
don't know. I'm not  attacking the Jews. I'm asking if this applies to every
people and every nation. Does every nation  have the same right to its own
homeland, to its own physical land that you say Israel does? I feel  like we're
in a rabbit hole here. No, I think it's a very straightforward question. Does
that right  extend to other countries other than Israel? But the most important
thing that is going on in our  culture right now is whether or not the people
that are yelling in the streets from the river to  the sea, whether that that's
a legitimate point of view to say that there should not be a Jewish  homeland,
there should not be a Jewish state. You'll never hear me say I just want to
know. I  know you haven't said it, but that's the argument. That's one of the
arguments going on globally and  the United States, excuse me, has a pretty
narrow view, I would say, in our media culture, what's  happening around the
world. There are plenty of countries having this debate. Stonehenge is a lot 
older than the first temple in Israel, and it was built by the same people who
live there now.  It's the same people, and they are being pushed off their
island and outnumbered by people from  other places. And so in Great Britain, in
Ireland, which is also a a country with a nation of people,  a race if you will,
that is being displaced, replaced. Who are they being replaced by?  Immigrants,
okay, from other places. I just wanted to clarify because I was one of the Well,
just  as a as a demographic matter, it's just like you can look at the numbers.
It's not controversial.  Just look at the numbers. They'll be a minority in
their country and their people have been there  longer than than Jews have been
in Israel. And so they're having this debate, too. That's all I'm  saying. And
lots of places are having this debate. Sure. So, does that principle apply to
everyone or  is it specific just to Israel? I think it applies specifically to
Israel. It applies to anyone who  can prove that they have some connection to
the land and connection to the history and connection  to international law. But
Israel, I think, does have bringing up international law. My So,  if again, no,
but but let me finish this because here's the here's the point. We're talking
about  Christian Zionism. The idea that as a Christian, I believe in both the
Old and the New Testament. Why  wouldn't I? I'm a person of the book. There are
80 million evangelical Christians in the United  States. What makes us who we
are is our adherence to the scripture. Our belief that the Bible,  all of it,
not part of it, but all of it is the word of the living God. Yeah. So if I
believe in  the Old and the New Testament, I do believe that there is a very
specific call to the Jewish people  that started with Abraham and he called them
out of what is now modern day Iraq. Said, "Come where  I send you." He came.
This is the land. Genesis 12:3. He says, "I will bless those who bless  you.
Curse those who curse you." In Genesis 17, he looks out of the world. says look
and this is  where I'm giving you the land. I think since that time there have
been people living in this land  connected to that moment of history. So there
is a historical connection that is not even broken.  I you've said that and I
want to ask you what that means a little more specifically if that's okay.  But
first let me just say that you could say the same thing of Britain who've been
there in their  land longer. Does anybody try to tell the Brits they the Brits
they can't live there anymore? No.  What's happening is But they are saying that
to the Jews. Oh, okay. Okay. But I just wonder if  you would extend extend the
same sympathy or the same principle. You don't You seem like this is  You think
I'm trying to trap you? I'm not. I'm at all trying to trap you. I It'd be as
simple as  saying native Britain have I got no problem with the native Brits
having their land. My point is  I don't know that there is a biblical connection
for the Brits, but I would say that's take that  off the table and I think
there's still a basis for the Jews having this little bitty strip of  real
estate and it is I'm not even arguing with you. I'm just trying to at all. I'm
just trying  to understand what it is that you're saying cuz it's it's not
obvious to me and maybe it's an IQ  problem but I'm having trouble understanding
this. But let me just go back to just clarify one thing.  You've brought up
international at least twice, maybe three times. as a basis for Israel's 
legitimacy. If Israel was out of compliance with international law, whatever
that is, would it  be less legitimate? Depends on if the the law and the way
it's applied is legitimate. There there  are some applications of so-called
international law that are not legitimate. Look at the ICC  or the IC. I agree.
Utterly ridiculous. One of the reasons I'm so grateful President Trump and 
Secretary Rubio are pushing hard trying to get rid of the ICC and the ICJ is
because they have become  rogue organizations that are no longer really about an
equal application of law and justice. I  don't know enough about it to say if
that's true or not. I I um but I just I'm interested that you  yourself appealed
to international law as a basis of is Israel's what I'm looking at is the whole 
of the last 100 years. The Belffor declaration is not exactly international law
by the way. It  was a letter I think. It was maybe maybe not law but it was a
declaration. It was a an assumption  and a declaration that was done by Lord
Balffor in the in Great Britain at that time. This land  was under the British
mandate and he said the Jews should have the land that was theirs from  3,800
years ago. It was simple as that. Right. And I'm not debating that. I'm just It
was not not  international law. It was a colonial power saying, "Okay, divide up
the world under the League of  Nations, under the United Nations." And then
because of the victories that Israel had against  those who tried to annihilate
them and it wasn't just that they were trying to take a little  piece of their
land, they tried to annihilate them. Okay? And there is still to this day the 
shouts of from the river to the sea. And Tucker, that means only one thing. Not
the shrinking of  Israel, but the annihilation of Israel. I don't think I don't
think you can say that you know what  it means actually because you don't know
what's in people's hearts. So why don't we just deal with  the facts? Maybe some
people mean it. It's in their mouths. I know it's in their minds. But I'm  not
Look, you'll never hear me say that. I What you will hear me say is I'm confused
by what the  definitions are. So let's go through this. You've appealed to
Genesis. Genesis 15 says it's Abram.  It's pre-Abraham. It's Abram receives from
God the news that his descendants will inherit the land.  And you tell me as the
as the theologian if I'm getting this wrong, but from the Euphrates to the 
Nile, I think I think that's right. And that would include like basically the
entire Middle East.  That would be the Levant. So that would be Israel, Jordan,
Syria, Lebanon. It would also be big parts  of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. It would
be I mean not sure it would go that far. I mean it would be  a big piece of
land. But here's the It would be a lot of places that are now countries that
but  this particular area that we're talking about now, Israel is um is a land
that God gave through  Abraham to a people that he chose. It was a people, a
place, and a purpose. We we can look at  it that way. Christian Zionism, I want
to go back because that's where we started on I'm not going  to let you off on
this because you have said it three times that God gave this land to this
people  and so it is entirely fair for me with respect to ask what land are you
talking about because  I just read Genesis 15 as I have many times and that land
I think it says from the Nile to the  Euphrates which is once again basically
the entire Middle East. So God gave that land to his people  the Jews or he
didn't. You're saying he did. What does that mean? Does Israel have the right 
to that land? Because you're appealing to Genesis. Yeah. You're saying that's
the original  deed? It would be fine if they took it all. But I don't think
that's what we're talking  about here today. What would be fine? Well, it's
exactly what we're talking about today. But  but here's what I I don't think I
think it would be fine if the state of Israel took over all. They  don't want to
take it over. They're not asking to take it over. But you're saying that the
reason  that Israel is legitimate, has this inherent right to exist is becau in
part because God gave it to  his people. And I am going to the same Bible that
you're referring to and noticing that that is a  huge piece of land. So if God
gave them that land, then they have a right to take it now by your  definition.
Unless I'm missing something. I think you're missing something because they're 
not asking to go back to take all of that, but they are asking to at least take
the  land that they now occupy, they now live in, they now own legitimately, and
it is a safe haven  for them. Well, may I ask though as because you're
appealing, you're explaining what Christian  Zionism is and your theological
beliefs and you think you just said it would be fine with you  if the state of
Israel took all of all of Syria, all of Lebanon. That's that's really not
exactly  what I'm trying to say. I'm asking, is that what you said? I thought
that's what you just said. It  was somewhat of a hyperbolic statement in that,
you know, if that's what you feel like that we're  talking about, but it isn't.
We're talking about this land that Israel, the state of Israel, now  lives in
and wants to have peace in. They're not trying to take over Jordan. They're not
trying to  take over Syria. They're not trying to take over Iraq or anywhere
else, but they do want to protect  their people. No, they're not trying to take
over Lebanon. But you're saying that as a religious  man, as a Christian, a
Christian Zionist, you agree with a lot of religious communities  here in
Israel, that the justification for this country is theological. It's a it's a
contract  between God and his people. And I'm telling you that that contract
includes a tract of land that  is much larger than the current nation state. may
be a bigger Zionist than even the Jews  are that live in I'm trying to
understand the implications of your theology for geopolitics  because you're
saying that the present government of Israel has a moral right to take over 
what are now other people's countries. No, I didn't say that. Then what are you
saying? I'm  simply saying that the people who live in Israel um I think have a
right to have security, have  safety. They have a right to be able to live in
this land that they have a connection to for 30  years. I told myself when I
said a prayer that I would not get annoyed, but as someone who is, you  know,
the father of daughters, when I see child molesters hiding in Israel and
escaping American  justice, I think I have a right to safety in my country, too.
So, you can understand that. I  think most people feel they have a right to
safety. I do think Israel has a right to safety  and I I hope that for them and
I'm sincere, but I'm an American and I have a right to safety  in my country,
too. You agree? And I think so, but I just want to get to this point. If Israel
were  to say, God gave us in Genesis 15, all of Lebanon, all of Syria, all the
way up to Iraq, would that  be legitimate in your view? I don't think in this
particular day and time they're asking for it.  Would it be legitimate? I'm not
sure that it would be. Why? Because you just said that God because  I think that
there is a a an understanding that the people of Israel today. Now, if they end
up  getting attacked by all these places and they win that war and they take
that land, then okay, that  that's a whole another whole another discussion. But
you and I started women. We started talking  about something simple, Christian
Zionism. But it turns out it's not because I don't the core of  Christian
Zionism, you said, and I'm quoting you, is the understanding, the belief, the
theological  understanding that Jews have a moral and legal, we went through the
legal moral deriving from the  biblical. the promises in our Bible which we
share with the Jewish people, the first part of the Old  Testament that it
derives from God's promise to the Jews. And so I have two questions. What are 
the borders of that? And who are those people in 2026? And you're not the first
person I've asked,  but you're the most reasonable, most gentle, most
theologically informed person. So I'm really  hoping for an answer. The first
question was the borders. I can't get an answer. Those borders are  so I'm going
to give up. But the second question is every bit as pressing which is who are
the  people? Who are the modern? Yes. Who are who are the descendants? So we
know and I believe and  I agree with you as a Christian that God promised this
land from modern day Iraq to modern day Egypt  to this people the Jews to
Abram's actually not to the to Abram's descendants as it says in Genesis  15.
Who are his descendants now? And how do we know who they are? I think they're
the Jews.  And we know who they are because they've always been a Jewish people.
There has been an unbroken  line of Jewish people. And they've lived in this
land for 3,800 years. Sometimes not very many  of them because they were chased
out all over the world. They were hunted down. They were almost  annihilated
during the Holocaust. They came back. To this day, Tucker, they represent, you
know, how  many Jews there are in the whole world. Please. I understand. But
first of all, the greatest  genocide of Jews no one ever mentions was by the
Romans where they were literally banned from  Jerusalem for 500 years. Yeah, of
course. And and it's all awful. And I'm opposed to all of that.  I'm opposed to
mass killing of anybody. Period. I'm hear you say that. I mean it. Yeah. And I
hope  that I believe that. My question is, and it's not a bumper sticker answer,
it's a sincere answer.  How do we know? Because what you're saying is that
certain people have a title to a highly contested  region. They own it in some
deep sense. So I think it's fair to ask who are they and how do we know?  So the
current prime minister's ancestors weren't from here within recorded history
there. He has no  deed. BB Netanyahu on one side his family's from Poland.
They're from Eastern Europe. So, how do  we know that he has a connection to the
people who God promised the land to, Abram's descendants? How  do we know that?
Well, if you take the genealogies that come not only from the Old, but the New 
Testament, you see that there is a historical connection through the entirety of
the Old and the  New Testament that details the Jewish connection to this land.
Does that include family? How do  we know that if his family scattered? But how
do we know it's the same people? No. Wh why is  that crazy? If if if you say to
me if they speak the same language, if they worship the same God,  if they
follow the same Bible, if they follow the same cultures and traditions and they
always  pray next year in Jerusalem and they pray for the peace of Jerusalem and
they pray facing toward  Jerusalem, does that not give you a little bit of a
clue as to who they are? Let's go through those  things because I would like to
have a rational. This is the conversation I've wanted. Bless you.  Thank you for
doing this. Um let's just go through those things. Okay. So, one of the things I
admire  most about Israel is they resurrected a dead language in 1948. Good for
them. Well, they really  didn't resurrect it. It It was existent. Okay. I'm not
That's not That's a compliment. I'm not  slightly No, no, no. But it is the
first time in all of human history that a language has survived  through this
length of time. It's it's it's I would call it You might not, but I would call
it a  miracle. One of many, okay, that you can attribute to this. I think it's
wonderful as someone  who loves language. Netanyahu's parents did not speak
Hebrew. Okay? They didn't live in this  region. Netanyahu, the founders of this
country were mostly secular. Some of them were avowed  atheists. They were not
praying for the peace of Jerusalem. They weren't praying at all because  they
didn't believe in God. There's no genealogy linking their families to the people
of this land  3,000 years ago. They're none. So, how do we know since they
didn't share a language? They didn't  share a religion. They had no religion
whatsoever. How do we know that they had a right to come here  from Eastern
Europe? And but they were scattered land. They were scattered to Eastern Europe.
They  were scattered all over the world. There were many in Ethiopia. They were
in Russia. They were in  Poland. They were throughout Asia. Jews were all over
the place. But they were still Jews. They  were still Jews. Okay. So, let me get
to the nub of the question since again a lot is at stake. A  lot of money is at
stake. Land is very valuable. Uh, Israel has a lot of resources. By the way,  if
you're accused of a crime, you can hide here. That's pretty good passport to
have. It's a good  thing, right? So, who's entitled to it? I don't understand.
And you're very discouraged in the  United States from asking this question for
some reason. It's a totally rational discourage. No,  you're not discouraging.
Others do. You're like the only person I have this conversation with.  Everyone
will be like, "Shut up, Nazi." It it's a foundational question. Are you speaking
of an  ethnic group or a religious group? Well, I think you're looking at for
many people it is religious.  There are people who may not have a deep religious
connection to Judaism, but they're still Jews.  Okay? So, it's it's an ethnic
category. It is ethnic, but it is also religious. It is rooted  in religion. You
can't take it out of it. Now, that means then how can an atheist Well, I will 
tell you this. There are some people who say, "I'm Christian." They never go to
church. They never  pray. They never read their Bible. They don't tithe. But
they're not entitled to citizenship  on the basis of that. They still call
themselves Christian even though they identify. Okay. Here's  the difference.
You're saying that people who have this identification have a deed to a huge
chunk  of land on the Mediterranean. Okay. So there's, you know, it's a it's a
right. You keep telling  me it's a right. And so it's totally fair to say if you
come to my house and say, "I've got the  title to your house." I get to ask,
"May I see it? Where'd you get it?" And that's exactly what  happened here.
People from Europe, Eastern Europe, came here. In a lot of cases, atheists and
kicked  out a lot of people who lived here. Land. Well, they did not just throw
people out. They bought a  lot of land. There's no question about that. Buy a
lot of land, but they also in 1948 kicked out a  lot of people. And the war, it
was a war. I agree. Yeah, I'm not look I'm not want to reitigate  the history.
I'm just saying it's a fact. Okay, including a lot of Christians. A lot of
Christians  uh wound up fleeing and they lost their homes and they've never been
allowed back. And all  of this was justified on the basis of this identity that
forms that is the ticket to the  right that you keep referring to. So my
question is very simple. I'm going to wait patiently for  an answer. Does this
right derive from religious affiliation or from genetics? And I would say it's 
both. But I would also say that when you said that Christians were kicked out,
Tucker, Christianity  is growing in Israel. Okay. But and and there is a big lie
that goes out there. But but no,  let me finish this because I I keep hearing
that Christians are really not treated well in  Israel. That's just simply
that's a lie. Well, there are lots there are lots of different There  were
34,000 Christians in Israel in 1948. There are 184,000 Christians here today.
And by  Israel, what are you counting? You talking about the land? What what
what territory are you  counting? You're counting Israel proper or are you
counting the West Bank as well and Gaza?  I mean, what what do you when you say
Israel, those numbers apply to what land mass? It would  be in Israel proper.
Okay, there 184,000. Now, I'll tell you where Christians are not doing very 
well. They're not doing very well in the Muslim control countries. There's
almost no Christians  in Qatar, for example, except those who live in the
Christian ghetto who are the service workers.  I'm sorry. Look, I don't want to
argue with you. There there are many more Christians in Qatar  than there are in
Israel. That's not true. What it actually is true and I refer you to Wikipedia, 
Mr. Ambassador. Wikipedia the I refer you to the government of Qar, the
government of Israel. These  are knowable facts. Like I'm and I'm in Jordan by
the numbers are down. In Syria, the numbers are  down. In Lebanon, the numbers
are down. argue that about twice as many Christians, but they live  in the
enclave. They are not native Qataris. Okay, we're we're mixing so many different
categories  here. I'm just saying I get things wrong all the time. You've just
gotten something wrong. And  I think it's important to acknowledge it. There are
many more Christians in Qar than there are  in Israel. Fact. How many? Now, you
caught me. I don't know. I could look at my phone, but I was  just there. And
there are many more like whatever. But I just want to get to the point that
forms  the basis of this whole conversation which is who has a right to the
land. Yeah. And you said  it's a mixture of religion and ethnicity because as I
noted and you agree many of the founders  maybe the majority of the founders of
modern Israel did not believe in God at all. So they  were not religious Jews.
They weren't religious at all. They were atheists. They said they were 
atheists. I believe them. So that suggests it's ethnic. But it's also true, as
you well know,  because there was a famous court case about this, that ethnic
Jews who convert to Christianity do  not have the right of return that was
settled by the Israeli Supreme Court. I'm very confused.  So that would suggest
it's not ethnicity because you invalidate your Jewishness by converting to 
Christianity. There are a number of Messianic Jews who live in Israel, who are
here. I'm aware of  significant number, but you're not contesting what I'm
saying because it's a very famous court case.  The right of return has to do
with your mother, your grandmother. It has to do with family ties  ethnic. There
is a lot of sure ethnicity is a big part of the right of return to make aliyah
to come  to Israel to live here. Then if I if both of your parents are Jewish
and you have an ethnic right to  the land, you are one of Abram's descendants,
but you convert to Christianity. How is it you don't  have the right to return?
I'm totally confused. But I know a number of people who have returned  as
Christians, but have Jewish history. Are you saying that Jews who convert to
Christianity have  a right, a legal right to return? Cuz I I know that they do.
Whether when you say do they have a  right to return do they prove it's a it's a
legal category as in government by their family history  their grandmother their
mother and there are many aspects of that I've read it I think I know that 
people who are Christian and they came here made aliyah they had Jewish blood
Jewish history they  were Christian messianic but they came here and they were
welcomed here and they were given full  legal rights and a passport. So, so
clearly that's not it's not true that you invalidate your right  of return by
converting to Christianity. That's just false. I'm not aware of that. I I know
that  there are a number of Christians here. I go to church with Christians
every week here. Of course.  But do you have a right to come and say I am an
ethnic Jew even though I practice Christianity.  Therefore, I have every bit as
much right to move into a settlement in the West Bank or into  East Jerusalem or
anywhere I want, Galilee, anywhere because I'm returning to the land of  my
forefathers of a legal right in the state of Israel even though I've converted
to Christianity.  You're saying that's true. I'm saying I know people have done
it. Now, can can I tell you what  the law specifically is? I'm not sure because
it's really a Christian. I'm not I don't have  any Jewish roots, so therefore I
cannot quote you the law. If you want me to do that, I'll look  at Well, it
really matters because you're saying, in fact, people in the United States are
being  called anti-semites. A lot of them, including me, because they somehow
don't believe that Israel has  a right to this land. Do you think Israel has a
right to this land? No. You haven't defined what  the land is, and you haven't
defined who Israel is. So, I really don't know. No, it is the land  they're
living in now. The borders that they have, the borders are moving. The borders
have moved  in the last year. What do you mean the borders have moved in the
last Well, they they are  the 1967 borders. I'm including, you know, the the
West East Jerusalem and Jude and Samaria.  What are the borders of Judea and
Samaria? Well, you basically take the Jordan River and it's  west of the Jordan
River to the Mediterranean Sea to the Lebanon border. And uh Israel did have 
control of the Sinai. They gave that to Egypt. They had control of it. They gave
it away in  1979 in the peace agreement. Um, but okay. So, we whatever you call
it, the land that was  taken from Jordan in 1967, you call it Judea and Samaria.
There's a significance to that that  I don't fully understand. I'm against it. I
know what it it's 80% of the Bible happened in Judea  and Samaria. We've also
established that the Bible gives Jews the right to occupy the land from the 
Nile to the Euphrates. So I'm very confused by why we've shrunk the land and why
we're dis Israel  has shrunk the land. They have made that decision. That's why
they gave away now given away a lot of  things. Abram's descendants are the ones
who have the right to have this land. Correct? Yes. Okay.  Why don't we do
genetic testing on everybody in the land and find out who Abram's descendants 
are? It's really simple. We've cracked the human genome. We can do that. Why
don't we do  that? Would you be against doing that? I I have no idea what that
would prove. I mean, maybe it  would be What do you mean what it would? It would
prove who Abram's descendants are and who has a  a right to live here and who
doesn't according to the theology that you yourself just explained.  And so I'm
very confused as to why we don't do that. If you believe the theology that
you've  just explained to me, would we do that all over the world and everybody?
This is the only country  in the world that you've said has this covenant with
God that this people have a moral and legal  right to the land. What about
people who convert to Judaism? Would they have a right? Well, you've  just
you've just said to Judaism. So, you just told me they can make aliyah. They may
not have  you've just told me that it doesn't matter. You told me moments ago,
trying to keep track, okay,  that it doesn't matter whether or not you believe
in God or whether or not you practice Torah  Judaism or rabbitic Judaism, which
is something else that I I don't even know if we should I don't  even know what
that means. But it doesn't matter whether you're quote a religious Jew or not.
What  matters is that you are part of the Jewish people to whom God gave this
land that extends from the  Nile to the Euphrates. And so if you believe that,
wouldn't you want to know with a burning passion  who those people are? And
because of science, we can now know who those people are. So why  aren't we
finding out? I guess you could propose a DNA test for everybody who comes here,
everybody  who lives here. But the point I'm comfortable with secular nation
states where it's none of this is  done on the basis of blood. I'm uncomfortable
with that. I'll just say that. But there are people who  may not have bloodlines
but who have converted to Judaism. Are they going to be able to live here?  Are
you going to kick them out? By your standards, they can't live here because you
just said that  they have a right to live here because God gave them the land
because they're the descendants of  Abram. They're the descendants of Abraham.
But if they're the spiritual descendants of Abraham  and they've now decided
that they're converting to Judaism, then do they have a right to live in 
Israel? I well there's a whole legal literature in Israel on that question and
my understanding  is that certain types of modern Judaism qualify a person and
other types don't. Is that your  understanding? I don't believe that people
converted and I could have this wrong but I  know people who faced this
personally know people. I don't believe people who've converted  in a reform
synagogue have the right of return. I I don't think that is because I know
people  who've married into Jewish families and they find out they don't have
the right of return. So  that is perplexing to me. Yeah. I know, you know, my
experience is a little different than yours. I  know people who have definite
Jewish connections, uh, family relations, but now they're Christian.  Some are
not necessarily practicing Jews. They're not uh they're more secular Jews as
you've  discussed, but they come back here. Okay. I'm not against that. I'm just
I'm just wondering  since you have since you began this conversation by asking
me did I think they had a right to come  here. Yeah. My question was on what
basis do they have the right? And you said because God granted  it to them.
Yeah. And also said because that there should be a land where Jews could live in
peace  and safety. I suppose and I asked you what a Jew was and you couldn't
answer it. You said it it  partly is religious but doesn't have to be. It's
partly genetic, but it doesn't have to be. And so  that you can see why I'm I
think I was very clear that being Jewish is an identification either  through
blood or through faith that you're Jewish. It may be that you're a blood Jew,
but you don't  necessarily practice Judaism. Just like there are people who say
they're Christian, but they  don't do a thing to demonstrate what Christian
There are a lot of bad Christians, including me  some of the time. a lot of the
time, but I don't have a right to real estate on the basis of my  claim of
Christian. You don't have a right to real estate if you're talking about a
specific  parcel. But if you're talking about a land, I think what we're talking
about, that's all I'm  all I'm saying. And there was a designation to the family
of nations of the world that there would be  a Jewish homeland. Let's let's get
to that point because I think you've taken us on several trails  here and I'm
not sure we can follow them all. But is there a reason that the Jewish people
that  represent and I want to get back to this because you didn't let me finish
while ago. They represent  0.2% of the world's population in the entirety of the
world there about 16 million Jews total and 8  million of them live here. The
rest live mostly in New York or South Florida and a few other places.  Okay. So,
this is a small population of people. They have connection to this land
historically,  biblically. Do they? Yes, they do. If if BB's family, we know
they lived in Eastern Europe.  There's no evidence they ever lived here. He's
not religious. What? But do you have his family  tree? No, we don't. Do you? He
doesn't. So, no one does. That's the point. So, how do we know  that he has any
connection to the land at all? And if there has been a practice of Judaism and
a  connection to the language, the Bible, the land, his His ancestors didn't he
doesn't practice  Judaism in any rigorous way. His ancestors didn't live here.
They didn't speak the language  and there's no evidence they ever lived here.
So, in what basis does he have a right to very much  speaks the language? He has
fought for the land. His family has fought for the land. dodging a  very obvious
question which is where does this right come from and the reason it's meaningful
is  because there are a lot of people in the territory that Israel controls
today particularly in the  West Bank who through genetic testing we can know
their families have been here for thousands  of years we don't know whether they
practiced Judaism whether they were Samaritans pre-Islam  we don't know that a
lot of them we know have been Christians for 2,000 years They have less of  a
right to the land than someone whose ancestors, the only thing we know about
them is they lived  in Latvia or Poland. They're Eastern European. How does that
work? They're Jewish. By what  definition? They're Jewish by their But how do we
know they have any connection? They're Jewish  by their faith. They're Jewish by
the connection to the language. Jewish by the connection to  the Torah. But but
but how do we know that BB specifically BB's ancestors ever lived here?  How do
we know that? I I'm I'm not sure if I understand your question. How do we know
if the  prime minister of Israel's ancestors ever lived? Maybe I could ask you,
how do we know they didn't?  I mean, well, it's on the basis of the claim that
they did that all kinds of things happen. People  are displaced. There's a money
flow. I mean, there's it's a big question. A lot hangs on  this. It's not some
theoretical thing like, oh, you know, did my grandparents do  this or do that?
It's like, no, no, we have a right to be here because my ancestors  were here.
Okay, how do we know they were here? I I I'm totally unable to process what
you're  trying to get at. It goes back, do Jewish people have any land on this
planet that should be  theirs? I feel that way about all peoples. I feel that
way about Jewish peoples. I feel that  way about. Okay. Then then you don't mind
him having this. Is there any Is there any country Let  me ask you this bluntly.
Is there any country that European peoples have a right to exclusively?  I think
they have attained their land through conquest. I mean, let's ask ourselves.
Have the  Britons attain their land through conquest? No, they've always been
there. The Romans,  the Greeks all speak. No, no, let's Well, you could
certainly say that here. The Romans  the Romans controlled this as you know and
they expelled they don't Jerusalem. Amen. I want them  to control it. I'm anti-
Roman. Okay, we're on the same page. Okay. But my question is very simple.  Is
there any European peoples that possesses the same right to their land that the
Jews, including  people whose ancestors lived in Eastern Europe, possess here?
The Britain, we know, the British  people, the Scandinavian people, the Irish
people, their ancestors have been there for thousands of  years. That's provable
through genetic testing. Do they have a right to their land exclusively?  Is
anyone saying they don't? Yes, of course. Yes. No one will say they will. And
I'm asking you, do  they have that right? And I'm not sure what what that
question involves because no one is trying to  force them out of their land of
their homes. But here, hold on. You want me to Why won't you answer  that
question? Does any Because I just did. Oh, so the eur So the Irish people have
the same  right to their land that the Jews have the biblical connection. Okay.
But I'm a I'm a Bible  believer. Okay. So that is but it's also it's also a
principle and that is and you've said it 15  times. Sometimes people have land
because they they were able to attain it through war. They  were able to obtain
it when it was challenged. I understand that there's all kinds of conflict. But 
we can't say that about the Irish world borders change all the time. Not
actually the borders  of the island of England have not changed nor but the
Ireland those are just two examples. So  you've got the indigenous people there.
Do they have a moral right to that as their homeland and  I think they would
probably say yes we do because we have ancient history I've never thought about 
whether now that I'm raising the question and you spent a lot of time thinking
about the right of  the Jewish people to their homeland. Do the Irish have the
same right to a homeland? As long as  they can defend it and as long as they,
you know, as long as they can defend it. But Tucker,  here's the point. I'm
telling you. Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. Now you just flipped. You're the 
minister here. Yeah. And I'm telling you, as long as they can defend it, and if
they can't defend,  you're allowing me to tell you that I think that what is
very, very special here is that there is  a biblical as well as an ethnic and a
historical. So you can take any one, but if you add them  all together,
biblical, historical, and ethnic, you have a very strong case that the Jewish
people  are living in a land that is indigenous to them. That has been their
historic homeland for 3,800  years. You can repeat it as and you can also look
in the archaeology. The stones cry out. Okay.  Have you been to the city of
David for examp so you know then that it's an amazing place. It  may be the
greatest archaeological discovery in all of history because it's it's stunning
and they  still continue to find things that date the Jewish people to this land
archaeologically for 3,800  years. We can we can date the Britain the British
people to their land much longer much thousands of  years longer. Stonehenge is
3,000 years older than any building built by the descendants of Abram  in this
country. And so I just it's fine. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's right.
I'm just  wanting you to affirm that right, but it makes you uncomfortable and
you won't. And I don't know  why. Because I've never honestly sat down and and
asked myself, are the lines around the It's an So  we know what the lines are.
I'm but I'm I'm saying but are those lines are those rooted in something  other
than the historical connection? Well, great. Then they should have it. But
that's they  have a right to have it. But then you said if they can defend it
and if they can't defend it,  they lose the right. But I didn't say it was
exclusive one or the other. I think you're really  going off the chart. I just
want to know if these principles apply universally or if they only apply  to the
people of Israel. And my answer appears to be just the people of Israel. They're
the only  ones with these rights. And I just reject that. I didn't say that. But
I'm saying we are talking  about Israel. We're in Israel. We're talking about
Christian Zionism because you've made some  disparaging statements about
Christian Zionist. You've apologized for him for which I appreciate.  And now
we're trying to define Christian and Zionist. And it seems like we've gone way
way  off of trying to get as you suggested as a former debater at the outset.
I'm trying to get to terms  and a common understanding of what the words mean
and the term and I'm no closer to that than I than  I was when I began. You're
not closer to the term a Christian. What that means? I think it's someone  who
follows Jesus. And that's my next question. There are a lot of Christians in the
West Bank and  um there there were a fair amount of Christians in Gaza and some
of them have been killed. There  were 5,000 in Gaza. Yeah. Yeah. and church. Two
different churches were hit by the IDF. Christian  Hospital was hit seven times
by the IDF. And I don't understand they were not hit seven times.  They were
there were different I know. And one of the times it was a rocket that was shot 
by Hamas and all the news agencies reported that the IDF shot the rocket. They
said the IDF  ever hit the hospital or the churches. They did uh accidentally
because and they apologized for  it and it was very unfortunate. But they also
you got to remember there were times Hamas often  hid caches of arms under
hospitals. Were you bothered by the fact that the IDF hit Christians?  I'm
bothered that anyone got killed in Gaza. But you know why I'm bothered? You're a
Christian  minister. You can't say that the Christians are Islamic extremists.
No, but I can say that the  reason side with the Christians over the secular
government of Israel, but I I would look at  it even more broadly. I would ask
you this. Why was there so much suffering and continues  to be suffering in
Gaza? It's because Hamas, which could have built a Singapore, built a Haiti, 
they have a land mass the size of Las Vegas. They built tunnels underneath that
are larger than the  London Underground, over 500 miles of tunnels. They didn't
build it to move people from one  hospital to the other, one marketplace to the
other, but to hide terrorist, to hide weaponry.  And on October the 7th, they
went over there and they massacred,200 civilians. Massacred,  mutilated,
humiliated them. You're never going to get me to defend Hamas. Sorry. Please 
don't. I'm not going to. But I'm telling you, I'm appalled by it. How many
civilians have been  killed by the IDF in Gaza? We don't know. You know why? We
don't know. What's your guess? Well, the  only numbers we have come from this
dubious entity called the Gaza Health Ministry. You know who that  is? Well, why
does Israel have a have a some kind of count on it? We also know that a lot of
the  people who were killed were in fact warriors. Sadly, how many kids were
killed? We don't know.  What's your guess? I don't know. I'm I'm sure it was
thousands. And as thousands of kids were  killed, some of the kids who were
killed had been recruited to be in the military. Kids as young  as 14 years old
kids. Do do you hear yourself? I wonder. I just said that there were kids as
young  as 14 that were recruited to be Hamas soldiers who were given arms. How
do you feel about the  kids being killed? I think it's horrible. You know what I
also think is horrible? I think  it's horrible that,200 people were slaughtered
by people across the border. 252 people were  taken hostage. 48 of the,200 were
Americans. And then when Hamas could have ended this on  October the 8th and
given all the hostages up, they didn't. Leaving no choice. You're never going 
to get me to defend Hamas. I'm not pro Hamas. I'm totally opposed to
slaughtering innocents whether  Hamas does it or whether the government of
Israel does it in much larger numbers. And the reason  I'm opposed to it is
because I'm a Christian and I believe that all souls are created by God. I  did
don't do not disagree with that wholeheartedly but but I said how many children
have been war  is a horrible thing period and we don't know we know that a lot
of the numbers were reported  by you said you think thousands of children have
been killed yeah and a lot of times you know why  they got killed because Hamas
would gather up the children and put them in the targets. Do you know  what
Israel does? They send page messages and they send texts to every cell phone in
Gaza and they  say, "We're going to hit this particular target." They drop
leaflets and they announce where they're  going to hit. Nobody does that. The US
doesn't do that. Israel does that in order to prevent, let  me finish this, they
do this in order to prevent civilian casualties. What Hamas does, they say, 
"Oh, this is the target." And by gunpoint they push people into those various
places. And then  when people get killed, they say, "Look, Israel just
slaughtered these people." Even though it was  Hamas who moved them into harm's
way, knowing that it was going to put them in a place of danger and  death and
destruction. And they do that because they don't care. You say you care about
life.  I care about life. It's interesting. They don't care about life. I'm not
saying that Hamas does.  You're never going to get me to defend Hamas. I'm good.
I'm anti-hasm. You said that three times and  I I believe it. Your dig at the
United States is very revealing. Why is it revealing? Because your  priorities
are very clear. No. No. Yes, they are. Yes, they are. And as an American, permit
me a  moment, okay, of outrage. Because I said many civilians have been killed.
And you said right in  the middle of your elaborate defense of the IDF's killing
of civilians, including children, you said  they do a better job than the United
States does. That's my country. and my government I consider  what flag am I
wearing here? Well, I I'm asking why is it what flag am I wearing? Well, that's
of  course my flag as well. And it's my flag. It's who I serve. So why the dig
at the United States in  the middle? It's not a dig at them. No, no, no, no. You
you've totally misrepresented. What did  you mean by that? I did not take a dig
at the US. What I'm saying is So the IDF is more humane than  the US military.
I'm just saying that Israel takes steps that we don't take and no other country 
that I'm aware of takes to try to prevent because no matter what Israel does,
they're going to get  accused of genocide. That may be right. And I'm um I'm
just telling you that they But then let me  ask you on that question. You know,
I that's such a politically loaded but I resent the idea that  you think that
I'm not loyal to the US. Look, I'm not say you're not loyal. I'm merely noting 
what you just said, which was that the IDF takes greater pains than the US, our
military does to  spare civilian lives. And I guess my question is, when was the
last time the US military killed this  many civilians? Do you know? Well, it
could have been Nagasaki, Hiroshima, could have been uh Iraq,  Afghanistan. We
don't know the full number. And I think most Christians would say all of those 
things were atrocities because innocents were killed in large numbers. And we we
don't believe  in that. And so that's not really a defense, is it? It's a
horrible thing, Tucker. And there  are people who end up unfortunately being
killed that shouldn't have been. I I would tell you that  I wish that none of
those people in Gaza had been killed after October the 8th. Well, I say not 
none of them. I'm glad Muhammad Sinoir was killed. I'm glad that some of those
warriors, the people  who masterminded and carried out the atrocities, old Hamas
operatives, how do you feel about  their deaths? If they participated in that,
then God help them. I'm telling you, I don't know  that they were 14 years. No,
but I'm telling you that when someone commits the acts of atrocity  and then
they hold hostages, if these were your children being held hostage in Gaza, what
would  you do to get them out? I wouldn't want to kill 14-year-olds. I'll tell
you that. Let me ask you  something. Would you do whatever it took to get your
kids back if they were being tortured, raped,  starved? I would not kill
children, period. Well, I'm just telling you, and I would never make  excuses
for killing children either. And I'm not talking about targeting children. I'm
talking  about You told me that 14-year-olds deserve to die because they're
working for him. My question is,  can you hear yourself? I do hear myself. So,
do you think a 14-year-old child has agency? Do you  think that he deserves to
die because he's being used by adults? Isn't his death a crushing tragic?  He's
holding a gun and he's pointing it at someone who's trying to save a hostage and
the only way  to save that hostage. I'm telling you, war is a horrible thing.
It's a horrible thing. And a lot  of innocent I think I'm the one who thinks war
is a horrible thing. No, no, no, no. I think what you  don't I'm trying to
explain how horrible it is. And you're saying that the 14-year-old deserved  to
die. We don't execute 14-y old. Putting words in my mouth that I didn't I don't
know what you're  saying. You never said deserve to die. Okay. I say there are
people who die. That is unfortunate.  Okay. But I'm saying that you are not
giving Israel credit for having done everything they  possibly could to a level
that quite frankly in urban warfare there has never been a war criticize  Israel
but it's a foreign country and I would much rather criticize a foreign country
than my own.  Feel free to do that. They can you pivoted against our country's
done a better job than our military  has. I I simply gave you the illustration
and I helped you understand that Israel goes to links  that no other country,
including ours, goes to in the middle of an urban war. And yet, Israel ended  up
with fewer civilian deaths in an urban war than any urban war of record. You
said you didn't  know how many civilian deaths there were. So, how can you say
that? If you took Gaza's numbers,  Hamas's numbers, you don't know what the
numbers are. You just told me that. But I'm saying it's  a lower number. But if
you took the numbers that they reported, which is like 50,000, 24 or 25,000  of
those were actual warriors. How many civilians if you if you range from 120 to
78? Those ones I  just read. I don't know if that's real. I don't know either.
I'm asking you. Yeah. And I'm telling  you those numbers I've not heard have not
read. The numbers that I think are more reportable are  somewhere in the 60,000
range. Where are those from? from the Gaza Health Ministry. You said  those are
valid numbers. I think they are. I don't think that they're accurate, but I'm
saying  let's just You're saying they're inaccurate, but they prove that Israel
is done doing a great job.  Let's assume that the most uh widespread numbers,
the largest numbers that have been reported out  of Gaza by Hamas. Yes. Let's
assume they're true. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying they  are true, but
assume they're true. Let's just take them at their word. Then you still have  a
lower number of civilians killed than in any urban warfare environment in modern
history.  Fact. Is that a fact? Yes. What are you comparing it to? To any urban
war. Name one. Iraq. Where?  Afghanistan. We're in Iraq. Where in Afghanistan?
There aren't many urban areas in Afghanistan. I  don't think there was any
fighting in urban areas in Afghanistan. Cobble. I don't know. Was there  was
there were there pitch battles in Kbble over long periods of time? I I don't 20
years in Kbble.  I don't think throughout all of Afghanistan. But what so what
were those rates you're talking  about? What are the rates there? You just the
number of people who were killed. Uhhuh. Into  the tens of thousands. I I'm I'm
asking you to I don't know the answer. I'd have never heard  of any of this. You
brought it up. You said the IDF has killed a lower proportion of civilians in 
urban warfare than in any urban conflict in modern history. I'd never heard that
before. I don't  know what your what are the controls for that. And you said,
well, the US military killed more  civilians. Would you agree that the real
tragedy was that Hamas continued to force this war? Hold  on. You just once
again said that the IDF is more humane than the United States military. You 
just said that. You said in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US military killed more
civilians than the IDF  did in Gaza. You just told me. I never heard that
before. And my question is, how do you know that?  What are those numbers? And
I'm trying to explain to you that there were extraordinary efforts to  keep the
numbers to you. I think they were tens of thousands. I'll get them for you.
Well, you  brought it up. That's the only reason I'm pushing you. But you I'm
wearing a flag. I've worked for a  country and you pretended or alleged that
somehow I'm not loyal to this and that I'm criticizing  my own country. A better
job than the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan. And I said, "What are  the
numbers?" and you said, "I don't know." So, on what basis are you making the
claim that the  IDF in Gaza spared more civilians than the US Army and Marine
Corps did in Afghanistan and  Iraq? Why are you saying that? Like, on what basis
are you saying that? from the conversations  that I've had with the people who
fought there and I don't have the exact numbers for you. But what  I'm trying to
help you to understand, and I don't think you're willing to go there, is that
there  was no desire to kill people indiscriminately in Gaza. I don't think
there was any desire  to kill people indiscriminately in Iraq, Afghanistan. Let
me just say I think on and I know  a bunch of people who serve in the IDF and I
don't believe your average IDF soldier wants to kill  innocents. I just want to
be really clear about that. I don't think most soldiers want to do that.  I
think a lot of them in our country, in Israel, wind up doing that cuz that's
what war is about  and it really hurts them. And I know people who've done it
personally, I know them really well and  it like wrecks their lives. So, but I
don't think your average soldier wants that in this country or  any other. The
leadership is a different question and I want to refer you very specifically to 
a number of speeches the prime minister, your friend Benjamin Netanyahu gave in
the aftermath  of October 7th, including one in November of that year when he
referred to Amalcch. Now Amalecch  is a reference, a biblical reference. Of
course, you'll be very familiar with that. The Amalachites  were a tribe
described throughout the Bible, particularly in 1 Samuel, that obstructed the
Jews  as they fled Egypt. And God tells Samuel to give the instructions to Saul
to kill the Amalachites.  And he says, and I'm sure you remember this. This is
in 1st Samuel 15. Of course, I'm sure I know  you know it. He says, "Kill the
men, kill the women, kill the children, kill the infants, kill  the donkeys,
kill the camels, kill everything." And Saul spares the king and he spares the 
animals. And for that he l he is punished by God. That is genocide. God is
calling for genocide of  the Amalachites of Amalcch. And the prime minister of
Israel at least once, I believe on other  occasions described the Palestinians
in Gaza as Amalcch. That's calling for genocide. And you know  that. I totally
disagree. Tell me then what it means. Because to say that Israel was attempting 
to commit genocide, first of all, that's simply not true. I'm not saying I'm
saying what is the  prime minister talking about. Why would he refer to the
Palestinians as Amalcch? What is You would  have to ask him. I don't know. I
know what I know what Amalecch is. I do understand First Samuel 16.  I get all
that. 1st Samuel 15. But I do understand very and it's widely known. So if you
say our  enemy is Amalecch and we are proceeding on the basis of God's commands
to us, you are calling  for genocide. Tell me how I'm missing something. Because
if Israel wanted to commit genocide, they  could have done it in two and a half
hours. We can debate what's happened in Gaza. I'm asking you why  the leader of
this country ask him. Well, what do you think? I don't know. Does that bother
you at  all, people? I I I don't know what he meant. I don't know if it was an
illustrative metaphor.  I think what he was saying was that we're not going to
let anything keep us from getting our  hostages back. Their sons and their
daughters who are being brutalized, raped, tortured,  starved, beaten. Come on,
Mr. Ambassador. No, I there are many examples of justice in the Bible,  but
there are accused of genocide regularly. I'm not accusing Israel of anything.
I'm saying  that the prime minister of Israel described the Palestinians
intended to do genocide. I'm  asking why of all the references in the Bible and
there are many to justice and there are many to  reconciliation that is a
reference to genocide as you know killing every man woman child and infant  I'm
quoting and their animals wiping them from the earth and when they don't do that
they're  punished when you say that at the outset of a war and then you wind up
with massive civilian  casualties maybe not as big as they were in Iraq Then I
have to ask you what what is that? And  is that kind of thinking consistent with
Western values and with Christianity? Do we as Christians  believe it's okay to
kill people's children? No, we don't. And neither do the Israelis because  they
didn't go after their children. If they wanted to kill all their children,
Tucker, they've  got the military capacity. They could have done it in less than
a day. I've heard you say that.  I mean, I guess why didn't they? Why didn't
they? I think there are a lot of decent people in  Israel who don't want that.
But I'm talking Do you think that the prime minister wanted to wipe out  every
single person in Gaza? Do you asking you what you think is the US representative
of our  government? I I don't think that that's what he wanted to do because why
are you referring? You  never had to ask him that. Why? Because I never saw any
evidence any evidence that Israel tried  to wipe out every single person. I just
gave you examples that they tried to save civilian  lives. Not. By the way, I'm
not, as I've said, and I mean this, I I I think most soldiers in  most armies,
including the Israel Defense Force, don't want to kill civilians. I just don't
believe  that. I think there are some lunatics. Can I ask you something? Yes.
You platformed a guy. You had  him on your show. Tony Aguilar. Don't platform
anyone. I You interviewed Not a liberal, so I  don't platform people. Okay. You
you interviewed Tony Aguilar who claimed that IDF soldiers killed  a little boy
in his presence. Uhhuh. That didn't happen. Okay. It did not happen. Let me give
you  I don't know if you know whether it happened or not. Well, I can tell you
why I know it didn't  happen. Because we found that little boy less than a week
later. All right. I was involved,  heavily involved in helping to extricate him
from Gaza. Four different countries were  involved in getting he and his mother
to safety, get them out of there. Tony Aguilar is a liar.  Okay. Tony Aguilar
claimed that he saw an IDF soldier shoot the little boy. He was fired from  the
GHF for cause and he begged for his job back and they wouldn't give it back
because they didn't  want him. And he told him that if they didn't give his job
back that he would burn him down. Okay?  So he goes out. Now let me finish this
because it's important for you to understand. Right? So  this guy then goes out
and makes up this story that he witnessed IDF soldiers shooting a little  boy. I
don't know that he made it up. He seemed to believe it to me. It's possible he's
wrong. I've  been wrong many times. Well, this is a little bit more than just
missing a fact. He claimed to be an  eyewitness to the murder of a little boy. a
little boy that a week later we found. And you're sure  it's the same little
boy? We're absolutely sure. How do you know that? Because we have pictures of 
him. We had descriptions of him. We know his name. We know his mother. Okay. He
was extricated out  of Gaza. It was a very delicate situation to get him out
because if Hamas had found out that he was  still alive, they would have killed
him in order to validate Aguiler's story. How do you know that?  So, he gets
out. How do you know Hamas would have killed him? Why wouldn't they? Wouldn't
they have  wanted to kill him? because that way they could have said that this
story was true. The people are  just telling you that what you're saying is true
and I have no basis of knowing. I'm really glad  cuz I don't want little kids to
get killed even 14-year-olds. Okay. You shouldn't want anyone to  get. But let
me ask you, is it true he also made the claim and he had audio of it um and
video too  that uh US contractors were using live ammunition to disperse crowds
and he had video of that. Do  you know if is did he make up that video? There
were times here's what happened. Crowds would  come toward the sites. They were
given verbal warnings and then they were given additional  verbal warnings and
they were shots were fired either in the air, sometimes in the ground.  And if
they continued to come and threaten, there were times when there were people who
were  uh engaged in in firefights. That happened. Oh, they were armed. Sometimes
they were. They were.  Can you do you know of specific instances where they were
armed? I can probably get you some  specific information about that. I think I
know the answer to that. I don't think there's  any evidence at all that they
were. But I also know that Are you okay with using live ammunition  um at aid
distribution sites for families, women and children? Very rarely did this happen
here at  all. Are you okay with that? No. I tell you what, I'm not okay with No,
no, no. I think you are  so trying to put words in my mouth. You you said that
they were firing back, but then there's no  evidence that they weren't. On a
Sunday afternoon, I can remember when there was widespread reports  on BBC, CNN,
and the New York Times, and they said that 27 people were killed at a feeding
site.  We had video extensively over that site. Not one single person, not only
were they not shot, nobody  was shot at. There was not one bit of violence that
happened at that feeding site. Trying to get  me to defend BBC. Not going to do
that. It's like defending Hamas. I I agree with you. I I don't  believe anything
I see in the media. It's just that it's really simple. If people are using,  and
these were American contractors, by the way, these are not Israelis that I'm
aware of.  American contractors run by some crypto minister or something was
running the group. Um, if they're  using live ammunition at an aid distribution
site, that strikes me as totally unacceptable. They  were not firing. Does that
seem acceptable to you? They were not firing at people got killed.  There's a
way to some of those people got killed because Hamas were trying to keep them
from  getting to the aid distribution sites because Hamas was controlling the
food. Hamas made $500  million selling the food that was supposed to be given
away for free. And what they were trying  to do is to keep people from going to
the sites where they were getting food for free. When we  set GHF up, the first
thing that happened I know, but I'm telling you, the first thing that people 
said was, "Wow, this is the first time we've had food that we got for free. Is
it okay to shoot  unarmed people? I just told you it wasn't. That's awful. Yeah,
it's awful. Of course it's awful. Um,  are all lives equal, do you think? Of
course they are. So, the death of a Palestinian is every bit  as important,
significant as the death of Israel. Why wouldn't it? Of course it is. There's no
such  thing as a human soul that God made that is less valuable than another.
That I'm pro-life. Me, too.  So, I believe that every life has intrinsic worth
and value. There's no such thing as a worthless or  a completely disposable
life. That's what makes me pro-life. Tucker, I totally agree. And I believe 
that from the conception until the end of natural life. Why I would never say
when confronted with  the death of children, war is terrible because it
minimizes the deaths of those children. It's  awful. And I don't think it
minimizes. I think it it is outrageous. It's a terrible thing.  I wish we never
had war. Why do we have war? We're about to have one with Iran. It looks like 
how many Americans do you think will die in that war? I hope none. None died
last year when we  uh participated in the 12-day war. Not one. You said 20,000
would die and they didn't. I said  could and they could have and and they could
die now. And that's a real risk. How many boots on the  ground do you think the
US has supplied for Israel over the course of its life? How many times have  we
put soldiers on the ground for Israel? Well, we had the Iraq war um which was
for Israel.  That wasn't for Israel. How was it for us? Well, because it was a
retribution against 9/11. Now,  was it the best idea? Was Was Iraq involved in
911? Our government thought so. Why are 9/11  documents still classified? I have
no idea. Should they be unclassified? I think so. All of  them. Right. I have no
problem with that. Me, too. I like transparency. I like sunlight. I do.  I hope
you'll call for that. I like free press. I like free speech. I totally agree. I
really  I like all of that. But if no if there was no con I've never seen I'm
open to anything but I've  never seen any connection between the government of
Saddam Hussein the secular ba'ist government of  Saddam Hussein and the terror
attacks of 9/11. I don't know that there were I don't know right so  so I'm not
sure but I don't know how why was that Israel's fault well Benjamin Netanyahu
now prime  minister of course exerted lots of pressure openly on the US
government to take out to regime  change the Saddam government. I was there. was
in Washington and um and they complied.  I don't think there's any way to read
it. I don't Do you think Israel leads the US and pushes  them and tells them
what to do? Not on everything, of course, but what I think, let me be specific. 
I think the uh Israeli government strongly pushed the United States to take out
Saddam Hussein.  But there's no question about that. I think the Israeli
government right now BB Netanyahu has  been in the White House seven times in
one year. Yeah. Pushing for uh regime change in Iran. I  think they're on the
verge of convincing this administration to affect regime. You think the 
president is weak and is being pushed? I'm not saying that. I know. Well, I
know. I know the  president's being pushed. Why do you think a foreign leader
was in the White House seven times  in one year? Are you okay with that? That's
a lie. You know, Israel is not just a friend or an  ally. It is a real partner.
We have an incredible relationship with Israel in intelligence and in  military,
in culture, in values. You know, to to be shocked that the Israeli prime
minister would  have that many meetings, it's a lot. But I I want to ask you the
question, do you think President  Trump is weak enough to let BB Netanyahu push
him into something that he doesn't want to do? I  don't. Look, I think, and I
don't know, of course, the answer to every question, including this  one, but I
think the president, President Trump, really doesn't like nuclear proliferation,
and I  don't think he wants Iran to have a bomb. I think he really sincerely
means I hope you don't want  them to have a bomb. Want them to have a bomb? It I
don't want anyone to have a bomb, including  Israel. I don't know why we're okay
with Israel having nuclear weapons. I'm not I'm not okay  with Pakistan having
them. I'm not okay with Saudi having them. Israel's nuclear weapons were 
created, of course, with nuclear material stolen from the United States, from a
nuclear plant in  Pennsylvania. As I know, you know, I'm opposed to all of it. I
don't like nuclear weapons.  It's mass murder as far as I'm concerned. So, no, I
don't want Iran to have a bomb, obviously.  The question is, what are the
potential costs? And you have to factor that into any decision.  And and what
are the costs if they were to get a nuclear bomb? They've said for 47 years,
death  to America. Well, I don't think they target us. I don't think Israel
they've targeted President  Trump specifically. Yeah. They've hired a person to
assassinate Iran, BBC and Hamas, not defending  them. Good. All I'm saying,
we're in agreement on that. I want our country is not thriving and  we're
spending, you know, tens and tens and tens of billions of dollars over time
defending Israel  and helping it prosecute all. You know where that money goes?
Goes to a lot of places. But but let's  let's talk about that a minute. $3.8 8
billion a year. That money goes right back to the US to  purchase weapon
systems. For example, every round of ammo that the IDF shoots is manufactured 
just outside where I live in Little Rock, Arkansas. Mhm. The components, a lot
of them for  the Iron Dome and the A3 missile defense systems. Yeah. Are
manufactured near Camden, Arkansas,  which needs it. By the way, Camden's
economically depressed. You know the area. I do. And there  are thousands and
thousands of American jobs. And there are billions and billions of dollars of 
expenditures that Israel makes in the US and buys the things that we I know how
defense contracting  works. I'm from Russia. No, I I know this. I guess what I'm
saying is America's not thriving at all.  And you think it's Israel's fault? I I
don't think it's Israel's fault. Okay. Well, good. I I I think  I just think
that what we're doing isn't working at all. And America is not rich. The
president is  doing some amazing things to get us back on Trump. Not attacking
Trump. Okay. I'm merely saying that  over say the last 20 years, America's not
gotten richer or freer um at all. And I come to Israel  and the infrastructure
we're flying in and I said to my buddy, I was like, "Man, the looks first  looks
great. I love the agriculture in Israel cuz it's beautiful. I love green. I love
plants."  I remember when it didn't look like that. Yeah. Yeah. First time I
came here 53 years ago. It's  great. It did not look like that. Great. looks a
lot nicer than our country and it has higher  standard of living. It has nicer
roads uh than the United States. And so it's like, okay, why  are we sending all
this money to a country that has a higher standard of living than ours? I don't 
know that they have a higher standard of living. They do actually. They have
free healthcare. They  also have free abortion. Are you okay with that? I
personally don't like that. Why would we be  subsidizing? Why would we send any
money? Why would we send any money to a country that provides  free abortion?
Because the money that we send does not pay for healthare. It does not pay for 
abortion. It pays for military. It's like if they don't spend it on this,
they'll spend it on that.  They do spend it on that and then we get many more
times back and the return on investment when we  say we're not sending you any
more money as long as you have free abortion. Well, that would be a  policy
decision. I would be okay with it because I hate abortion. I think it's
horrible. How much  do you hate it? Why are we sending the money if they're
paying for free? They're not paying for  abortions with the money and because we
in turn get billions of dollars. The return on investment  is estimated
somewhere between 400 and 1200. I've heard these numbers. I just live there and
I know  and I'm by the way I'm for American manufacturing. The defense industry
is totally corrupt and CD  as you know. However, I like to see American
companies thrive. Like it's complicated. I'm not  an extremist or an absolutist
on really anything other than abortion. However, net net, as we say,  our
country is not really thriving. And I we're also totally Why is that the case?
Is it because  we've done a lousy job controlling our borders, a lousy job of
controlling our economy? It's a  lot of things, but we own that. I think
President Trump is doing remarkable things to turn it  around. I cannot imagine
any president. Oh, but if you're saying the country is in trouble,  listen,
saying we're out of money actually credit to what the president is doing to get
us out  of debt because I think that what he's doing economically, I'm not
supporting Hamas and  I'm not attacking Trump. Okay. Just with those baseline
agreements, it's also true that like  our debt is not sustainable. And so given
that, like what do you think it will cost? What what  did it cost to move all
these to move the fleet off Iran into the Persian Gulf? A lot less than  it
would to bury a lot of Americans if they ever got a long range ballistic
missile. A lot less.  I want you to understand that when Iran has told us for 47
years they're going to kill us, do you  think they would do it if they had the
capacity militarily? What would happen if Iran took out any  of the energy
facilities in the Gulf or took out a bunch of them? What would happen to the
United  States economy, do you think? Well, our economy probably would survive
because we have energy  independence thanks to President Trump. Would survive.
Our economy is based on our markets. What  What do you think? It would be a
terrible thing to happen globally. It's why Iran is a global  threat. It's why
Iran through its proxies. Tucker, this is another thing people They're not
blowing  up energy infrastructure right now, but if we try to regime change
them, they have said that they  will. I don't know if they will or not. either
is that a risk that but they have their own problems  to defend if they try to
do that and they lose their own energy capacity worried about so if  they took
out and I again I don't know what's going to happen and I guess we're not
supposed  to think about worst case because that makes us pro-Islamic or
something but I'm an American and  I don't want a depression in our country it's
too fractured and unstable right now I don't think we  want that at all okay
none of us want that none of us want that not right now we don't not at all  I
don't want it next year next week 10 Seriously, now all these states are
basically in a state  of insurrection against the federal government. They're
not enforcing the most basic law of the  land, which is immigration. And thank
goodness, President Trump is pushing back and he's I  agree. I'm just saying
seeking to force if all of a sudden compliance markets just tanked and  gas
tripled or whatever and you had, you know, like a severe recession or something
worse. That's  a massive cost and I don't see anybody factoring in that
possibility. Iran has said it will do  it. You've said 10 times they're evil.
Okay, I believe you. Then why wouldn't they take  out the Qatari gas fields they
share with Qar or refining prochemicals extraction in any of  the Gulf
countries? That that would [ __ ] us. Let's well energy wise again we have
independence  because President Trump put measures in place that gave us the
capacity. We set international energy  prices in the United States. In some ways
we do because our own market and our own production has  a whole lot to do with
what those world costs are going to be. If you took Saudi energy production  or
Qatari energy production or Emirati energy production offline that is making an
assumption  that if there were regime change that they would be more effective
at attacking than we would be  defending. And that's a pretty Can we defend the
the straits for moves? Can we defend all of that  energy infrastructure? Is
anyone even asking these questions or it's all like a Mark Leven episode  where
are bad. Okay, they are certainly asking the questions. That's part of the whole
process.  Saying is it I've raised this before and it's like shut up. You're
taking money from the jihadis.  I've never taken a dime from anybody. Obviously,
I just care about the United States and it freaks  me out and no one else seems
worried about this. In caring about the US, you should care about the  fact that
the proxies of Iran have moved globally. 12 Central and South American countries
have  Hezbollah deeply embedded. Venezuela one of the worst. They're in the
Western Hemisphere already.  Do we know how many? Where would you rank that on
the on the like list of concerns for the average  American? Hezbollah in I doubt
most Americans think about it. I think about it because I know  what they do. I
know that if it weren't for Iran, there wouldn't be Hamas. There wouldn't be 
the Houthis. There wouldn't be Hezbollah. We wouldn't have the problem on the
border with  Lebanon. We wouldn't have the problem with Yemen. We wouldn't have
the difference problem  on the border with Leb I'm as I'm an American. I'm not
having any problems on the border with  Lebanon right now. I live in Maine. We
don't have problems on the border of Lebanon. Like  what are you even talking
about? No offense. There's 700,000 Americans who live in Israel  for one thing.
Does that matter to you? Well, of course every American matters to me. Every 
life you say matters the same. So that should matter when my country like
shelling civilians and  civilians get killed and displaced. That should matter
to all of us. But I mean there's a genocide  going on like in all kinds of
different countries there. There's a lot that's sad and broken about  the world.
We know that as Christians. Satan rules the world. But our job as like members
of a  nation state is look after our community families, right? So I don't think
any of the concerns that  you've just raised, which I think are all real, I'm
not disputing them at all, are even in  like the top hundred for Americans. Can
the US government be spending this much time and money  worrying about things
that are not on the list of Americans concerns? Do we have self-government? 
Does it matter what Americans actually think or doesn't it? Of course it does.
But it also  matters how much does it matter what the threat is to Americans. Do
you think there's a threat  to Americans because of the proliferation of the
proxies in in Iran? Conceivably there is. I'm not  pro Ron, but but beyond
conceivably, do you think that they mean it when they say 47 cartels like  in my
town and no one's doing anything about it at all? I'm hearing a lot doing
anything about that.  No one's doing anything about it at all. Okay, that's a
fact. We have a huge country. This is a  country the size of New Jersey with no
resources. You know, it's just a tiny little country. Mhm.  We're from a huge
continentalized country that's totally diverse, very, very hard to manage and 
police. And we have a lot of problems. And I just think if you ask Americans
what do they want to  spend their time and money worrying about fixing,
improving, no one's going to mention the border  with Lebanon that I know. Do
you think? I doubt they will. But this don't like to think that there  are
people that the US government has monitoring what the threats are to Americans
long term. Do  you think there's a threat? The question is when people talk
Well, but I don't know that Saddam  ever said he was going to take down America,
but the the Iranian regime has said for 47 years  they are. Will you just if
they had the capacity of a long range ballistic missile and nuclear  capability,
do you think they'd light that puppy up and send it to us? I don't know. Um, but
I know  Well, I know this from sitting here last year, four wars that I went
through in less than  a year, the Iranians rain down ballistic missiles. Can I
ask you a question? Like, how  much does it matter what Americans think? Well,
it matters every bit what Americans think. That's  why Americans vote. It's why
Americans have the opportunity to have free speech. We want them to  have that.
Okay. So, what percentage of Americans support a war with Iran? I don't know. Do
you  know? I do. It's I think it's around I saw the numbers yesterday. I think
it was like 21%. Okay.  Is that enough to have a war with Iran? We don't live in
a world where you have a poll taken to  find out whether our policy should be a
particular direction because Oh, I thought I thought you just  said that
democracy. No, we care deeply about it. But on the other hand, do we make the
decisions  of foreign policy and even domestic policy based on we care deeply
about it? In what sense? How  in if we're ignoring it, then in what sense do we
quote care deeply about it? Well, I think we  care deeply when we see there's a
threat. No, but about Americans opinions. So, you've got  350 million Americans.
Um, they vote they voted in this last election on the basis in part of  the
promise no more wars. Okay. So, now we're about to have a war. Looks like 80% of
people are  against it. In that range, let's say it's 70%, but nowhere near
majority support for this war.  And it's not direct democracy, but it is a form
of democracy. It's representative democracy.  The ultimate form of democracy in
our system in a republic because we're not a true democracy.  We're a republic.
Exactly. Right. It's a mediated democracy. It'll be an opportunity for
Americans  to vote if they think that we've made the wrong policy decisions. I
personally think the president  is making the right policy decision. But I guess
it but you just said it matters deeply what  Americans think and if the
overwhelming majority are against it in what sense does it matter cuz  what I
hear is it matters what they think but it really doesn't matter what they think
because no  you take it in you certainly ingest that and then what do you once
you ingest it then you make sure  that you have you just got it goes out the
other end obviously no it doesn't it doesn't Tucker  but you also have
information that the average American may not have they may not know what the 
threat is. How many Americans know that Hezbollah is in 12 Western Hemisphere
countries? How many  Americans care? Well, I would hope they would all care. How
many Americans know? How many people  from Iran from terrorist cells have come
across Joe Biden's open border? How how many Americans?  They definitely care
about that. Okay, you care. Why haven't they been rounded up? But they're 
trying, but you got all these blue state mayors and governors making it very
difficult. But thank  god President Trump is trying to get it done. Look, I'm
totally all for that completely. I guess  what I'm saying is that most Americans
over I've never met an American who thinks other than like  the people who have
ideological reasons to pretend they think it that the imminent threat to
America  is anything having to do with Iran. Imminent threats to America include
like bankruptcy  from too much debt, your son ODing on fentanyl, your
neighborhood completely changing because  unlike Israel, Americans don't have a
right to their country. It can just be completely changed  by their legislature.
New people can show up from foreign countries and not speak your language and 
there's nothing you can do about because you don't have a right because you're
not BB. Can you feel  the resentment? Because it's real. I'm not against Israel.
I'm against the total destruction. You  hide that very well. I'm mad at my
lawmakers for not protecting my country with the care they've  protected Israel.
I don't think that your country, my country, our country has spent that much 
time protecting Israel. I asked you a little bit ago. They have no time
protecting my  country. No, I ask you. Well, actually, they do. How? They are
the tip of the spear. Every  enemy they have is our enemy. Our country. Things
that are targeted toward us often go through them.  How do we have 60 million
illegal aliens if they protected my country? Well, that we didn't protect  our
country because we had a president that opened up the borders and didn't give a
rip going on  since Reagan 1986. Yeah, but that's 40 years. President Trump the
credit for having closed the  border. I'm giving I love the fact I campaigned
for Trump cuz he said he'll close the border. He  did. Amen. Thank you, Trump.
But we had Reagan, then we had Bush. Then we had Clinton. Then we  had Bush
again. Then we had that guy Obama and then you know the presidents. Yeah. And
they all  presided over my country's total transformation from a nice clean
affluent orderly society into  like pretty kind of third world actually. That's
not protecting us. That's behaving with total  contempt for my country. You said
a moment ago that we do more or you inferred that we do  more for Israel than we
do for ourselves. Do you believe that? No. What? I don't I didn't say we do 
more for Israel. It's like, but where's the care? Where's the concern? Where's
the Holy smokes?  There are drug cartels in your neighborhood. You're telling me
about the border with Lebanon  and like Hezbollah or Hezbollah, whatever you
call it, in some Latin American country. I don't  care. There are drug cartels
in my neighborhood. I know people who've died of fentanyl os. Where  the
fentanyl come from? Probably from China. It's from Mexico. From China through
Yeah. The  precursor chemicals they say come from China. I get it. And who's in
that axis with China? Iran.  Uh Larry Frink is in that access with No, actually
actually the heads of our biggest corporations are  in that axis with China. I
don't care about Iran at all. I care about America. And if blowing up  Iran
makes my country richer and safer, I'm for it. And if it doesn't, I'm totally
opposed. It's  that simple. I think most Americans feel that way. I asked you a
question a little bit ago you never  got back to because I think it's an
important one because one of the things that I I sense a tension  with you. You
feel like that we do too much for Israel. We're getting nothing from it. And I 
ask you how many I don't think we're getting how many boots on the ground has
the US placed on  behalf of Israel? However many went to Iraq. We did that for
Israel. No, I don't think we did.  You said we did it because of 9/11. That's
was the US justification for it. But it wasn't 911.  So what was the actual
reason? Well, that's the US government told us it was for 911. They told us 
that they were part of it that they had weapons of mass destruction. They knew
they had nothing to do  with 911. Obviously, there's no evidence. So what was
the actual Israel was not in that component.  Israel had no influence on our
decision to invade Iraq. That's not what the people who made the  decision say.
They say Israel Well, let me get back to the point. Gave us that information
about  the fake weapons of mass destruction. What do you think the question came
from? BB, how many how  many Americans put their boots on the ground for Israel?
The answer is zero. Everybody who served  in Iraq put their boots on the ground
for Israel. Did not. Did not. Where did we get the information  about the
weapons of mass destruction? That wasn't real. We didn't get that from You're
saying  we got that from Israel? That Israel was one pushed us into that? Well,
absolutely. You really  believe that? I know that for a fact. And so does every
Yes. This has been uh widely written about  and discussed. And I'm not attacking
Israel. Like they thought it was in their interest to take  out a government
that was paying the families of suicide bombers. I get it. I'm not mad at
Israel  about that. I never have been. I'm mad at the Bush administration and
all the people who went along  with this to the detriment of my country. That's
who I'm mad at. Not Israel. BB is doing what he  can for his country. Whether
you agree with him or not, I want my leaders to do the same for my  country.
That's it. I think the present leadership is doing just that. I truly do. And I
don't  think that it's at all accurate to even intimate that tiny little Israel
is pushing the US into  something it does not want to do. I totally Our leaders
appear to want to do it. Our public does  not want to do it at all. The public
does not want war with Iran. BB does. He's gotten seven seven  trips to the
White House. The average American Hold on. The average American doesn't have
that  level of access and a foreign leader does. Seven in one year. And now
we're moving toward war  with Iran. The average American doesn't want that war.
The average American is outraged. Don't  you understand? I'm not the strongest
president I've ever seen in my lifetime. Going back to  Eisenhower for God. If
you're an American. No, no, no. Listen to me, Tucker. For God's sake,  I'm not
attacking Trump. I like Trump. I know, but you're making it sound like that he
is being  pulled into something that he really doesn't want to do or pulled into
something cuz he's persuaded.  I'm neither saying that nor implying. I was in
the meeting last week. I was in the meetings last  summer. I can assure you,
President Trump is not being led into something at all by Prime Minister 
Netanyahu. To be clear, I'm neither saying that nor implying it. what I am
stating out loud is  true and that's that Prime Minister Netanyahu BB Netanyahu
has way more influence over American  foreign policy than Americans do. And we
know this because he wants a war with Iran. The overwhelming  majority of
Americans don't want a war with Iran and we're very likely to get a war with
Iran. So  who has more influence, Benjamin Netanyahu or 80% of Americans? I'm
saying that's outrageous. That's  all I'm saying. I would counter that. BB
Netanyahu does not want a war with Iran. To say that he  wants a war, you know
who's going to be at the very front of that? His people. And I don't agree  with
that. I'm with him enough to know he does not want a war. He doesn't. Does Does
he think  that there may be a necessity of taking a war in order to prevent an
attack on not just Israel?  But I think I know too much. I mean, let's let's be
real, okay? So, there was uh you know, Steve  Wickoff, in my opinion, is just a
sterling guy, just a good guy, excellent guy. I that's my  view and kind of pro-
American and just couldn't be nicer and wants to do the right thing and he's 
probably Trump's best friend. He and maybe Jared, too, are involved in a
negotiation with Hamas.  Um, or you mean with Iran? With Iran. Yeah. I'm so
sorry. Okay. And the Israeli government short  circus it by hitting Iran. So
like they What do you mean they short circuit by hitting Iran?  They did
everything they could to shut down the negotiations between the United States, 
the Trump administration, and Iran. And look, I wouldn't. They're acting again
in their own  interest, but our country should also act in its own interest.
That's all I'm saying. So don't  tell me that BB doesn't want a war with Iran.
He doesn't. If Jared Kushner and Steve Witco could  be successful in getting the
president's demands, and keep in mind, these are the president's  demands. What
are those demands? No enrichment, no nuclear weapon. Quit killing your own
people  in the streets by the tens of thousands. You, you and I both agree that
it's a horrible thing to  kill your own citizens, which Iran is doing. It's a
horrible thing to kill anybody's citizens.  Anybody's citizens. We agree on
that. Except that they're 14-year-olds working for Hamas. But  whatever. It's
still a tragedy. No, it is. Sorry, I'm being a jerk. You really are being a
jerk. I  am. I know. I am being a jerk on it. I am such a jerk. I'm going to
write down admitted. I know  he's a jerk. Oh, I am a jerk. Everyone knows that.
I mean, I'm trying to really trying. Okay.  Okay. No, but I agree with you 100%.
Of course, it's a trap. If that could be done, and I pray  it can. Yes. And you
know why? Number one, because it would be wonderful for everybody.  Number two,
if there is a war, you're going to be 6,000 miles from it. You know where I'm
going  to be? In the bullseye. Do I want there to be a war? No. Do Israelis want
there to be a war?  No. How many I keep hearing Israel is fighting a sevenfront
war right now. What are those seven  fronts? Well, you got Lebanon, you have
Egypt. Now, Egypt is not an active war, but you have the  Muslim Brotherhood
within Egypt. You've got uh the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan. You've got Syria. 
Wait, they're fighting war with Jordan with the Muslim Brotherhood that is in
Jordan, not directly  with Jordan, not the government of Jordan. What are they?
You've got Hezbollah, you've got in  Lebanon, Hoodis in Yemen, you have Hamas in
Gaza, you have uh the threats that come from Iran.  And how many is that? That's
seven. That's seven. Okay. I give you an eighth one. You know  the eighth one?
The media. No, I would tell you there's an eighth front war they fight. How
many  journalists is Israel killed in Gaza? I don't know. Over 200. That seems
like Now, are they  real journalists? Because a lot of those people that were
supposedly journalists were actually  Hamas fighters that are documented Hamas
fighters. So that's why I ask you how many are actual  journalists. You know, I
I don't know. But a lot of them were. I mean, they worked for big news 
organizations and they had press written on their chest. Yeah. Some of them had
UNRA cars and they  were also working for Hamas. So are you concerned? So do you
think that over 200 journalists killed  in Gaza, all fake journalists who
deserve to be killed? I have no idea how many the total  number is. I I don't
have their credentials, but I know that there were quite a few that were 
actually Hamas fighters that protected Hamas. Ask the hostages. The hostages
came back and they  started telling about the number of people that were doctors
in hospitals that held them hostage  in their homes or the number of people who
were pretending to be journalists who were actually  holding them hostage. As
someone who is telling you that there's there's a lot more to what  as someone
whose tax dollars helped pay for killing all those civilians in Gaza, I feel
like  I have a right to know how many were killed and Israel won't let outside
observers in to figure  it out. And I I'm frustrated. I just want to say that my
last question is about Christians.  Um both Christians who visit and Christians
uh who live here, particularly in the West Bank.  Um, I spoke to someone
recently, um, a Christian minister who grew up in a town right outside 
Bethlehem. We would know it as Shepherd's Field um, in the New Testament where
the shepherds were  tending their flocks in Matthew and of course the angels
come and announce the arrival of Jesus and  in nearby Bethlehem. His family's
been Christian, he says, for 2,000 years. He says his where  he grew up is now
surrounded by settlements um, of people who are not from Israel at all.  A lot
of them are from the United States, Jewish settlements. They have different
roads  uh that the native Christians are not allowed to use. I don't quite know
how that works. Um and  he described a story where his mother was shot outside
their house by an IDF soldier for reasons  no one ever explained. She survived
um but no one was ever punished for it or even explained why  they did it. And
he basically described being terrorized by settlers. Uh, and I wonder if that's 
a concern for you for the native population, the indigenous population. Did you
say this happened  in Bethlehem? Uh, it happened in Shepherd's Field. So, it's a
Christian village. Beth Sahor, I think  is its name outside right outside
Bethlehem. If it's in Bethlehem, it's not in Bethlehem. It's  again, it's I
think it's Betahor, I believe, is the name of the village because there are no 
Israelis in Bethlehem. None. There are no Jews in Bethlehem. Are there new
settlements outside  Bethlehem where he is from? Uh over in in area C, but not
in area A. There are none. Well, he he  describes the town he grew up in. And I
guess I I wonder why a Christian whose family's been there  for 2,000 years.
There are Palestinian Christians throughout uh today in Samaria. That That's 
true. I've been over to visit them. I know. I know. I know you have. and some
have been um you  know we've advocated for some that are Muslim but they're
American citizens and we advocated because  there was uh but why can't they just
drive into Jerusalem to go to the church of the holy supplr?  Why do they need a
permit to do that if they're from there? Because of the acts of terrorism that 
has made it impossible to do it. You know how many suicide Christians you asked
this question. So  what do we do? Just say you're a Christian. Oh yeah, I'm a
Christian. But you're wearing a  suicide bomb. Do Christians do suicide bombs?
They could they could if all they have to do is  just say announce I'm a
Christian. There were over a thousand. Why don't just get an identity card  says
I'm a Christian. Let me just finish this. Before Israel put the the green line
up and before  they took great care to put checkpoints in place, there were over
a thousand suicide bombers in  one year. It was awful. I remember it. But I
don't think any of them were Christians. And they  may not have been. Okay. But
but my point is we we could find out if they were and so you're you're  saying
we just trust somebody if they come up and say I'm a Christian I just want to go
to the  holy supplr. Let me in. What I'm saying is that Christians have a right
to go to the holy supplr.  Israel does not own it. They've had possession of it
since 1967. It doesn't belong to BB. It belongs  to me and you and every other
Christian. BB was a probably a young person. I'm not even sure he was  No
Christian should ever be barred from the church of the holy supplr. Should
Christians be barred  from Joseph's tomb in Nabilus? I don't know. Let's just
start with the church of the holy self and I  don't understand on what grounds
they are. Well, they can't if they're Christians at Betsah.  So, I don't
understand why they're a threat. They're not a threat. And why won't you as the 
Christian minister, US ambassador to the state of Israel say to the prime
minister, "You can't  allow this. Your country exists in part because American
Christians support you. So, you have  to treat us well." Part of the problem,
Tucker, is that in the Palestinian Authority, and  that's what we're talking
about, there are Christians. Look, I know some Christians who live  in
Bethlehem, and that is area A. Bethlehem was 80 plus% Christian before Oslo. 80%
Christian,  less than 20% Muslim. Today, it's flipped. It's now 80 plus% Muslim.
It's very few Christian. And  some of the Christians that I personally know and
know well are Zionist. Let that surprise you.  They're Zionist. They're
hardcore. Some are are Let me finish my train of thought here. Okay.  So, in the
Palestinian Authority, they still teach children from the time they're five
years  old that the greatest thing in the world is to kill Jews. And that if
they end up being a martyr  and if they kill Jews, they will get a pension for
life if they die. And if they don't, they'll get  a paycheck for life and their
families will. And it's called the prisoners and martyrs fund. It's  we call it
pay for slay in the US. It is against our law. A lot of Christians collecting on
that.  I don't know. Zero. So my question remains and I'm a little bit
frustrated at this point. I because  I'm not defending Hamas. I hate suicide
bombing. I hate suicide. I hate violence. I hate the killing  of children.
Period. Why can't a Christian who was born there, whose family's been there for
2,000  years, following Jesus for 2,000 years, drive, cuz it's really close to
the Church of the Holy  Supplr. He poses no threat. And why can't the United
States government advocate for him to do  that? We do advocate for Americans
because that's our job. And it doesn't matter whether they're  Palestinian or
Israeli. We do that. But as far as when they How many Americans are being held
in  Israeli prisons right now? Um total I don't have a exact number on that. I
don't know. How can you  advocate for them if you don't know how many there are?
Well, everyone that we know we go visit.  Our consular goes there almost every
week and visits the Americans. It's not a large number  uh as far as Americans,
but when we have them, we go we go to their trials when they're on trial.  So,
yeah, we do a lot more than you've given us credit for. Oh, I'm giving you
credit. No, no,  you're giving credit for doing that because we don't get much.
No, we don't get much. By the way,  not every embassy does that. I happen to
know for a fact they don't advocate for Americans in jail.  And we take our
consular services across into the Palestinian Authority and help people over
there.  Some of those are Christians, some are not, some are Muslim. But if
they're Americans and they  have American citizenship, an American passport, we
help them. That makes me so happy to hear. I go  to Ramla, I sit down with the
vice president and the prime minister of the Palestinian Authority.  We try to
work ways to make things better. But the reason that sometimes it's not just a
absolute  free passage, I'll tell you why. because there are too many instances
of terrorist acts and Israel is  not going to allow themselves. But the
Christians didn't do it and they're not going to do it and  Christians pay for
all of this. They pay for a lot of this. Horrible. It's it's very you can say
it's  unfair. But here's you can't punish the innocent. How's that? But you got
to somehow make sure that  you screen people. And that's why the checkpoints.
Let me tell you what happened not too very long  ago. We had a humanitarian aid
truck that came across from Jordan. The driver was supposedly  vetted. He was a
former Jordanian military person. He came across the checkpoint. Everything
should  be fine, right? He gets out of his truck. He takes a gun and he shoots
two of the people, I believe  it, who are the Israelis at the checkpoint. One of
whom was a young person less than a year in  the job. His mother teaches in the
American school where our embassy people go in Herselia.  I get to make the
phone call to the mother. I'm going to tell you something. It was not the most 
pleasant day of my life. It sounds awful. It is awful. And so those kind of
incidences are the  reason that it is difficult to go from Judea, Samaria, or
the West Bank. Call it whatever you  want. But if you're in area A, which is
under the control of the Palestinian Authority, and  your education has been
that killing Jews is a wonderful thing. I'm talking about the Christians.  But
the Christians, if they go to those schools, they're still going to get that
education.  When was the last time there was a suicide bomb detonated by
Christians? I don't know. Never. Let  me ask you this. Look, I'm not trying to
defend, but I'm saying to you that if the curriculum  doesn't get changed, if
the pay for slay doesn't get changed, that doesn't apply. You have a  culture.
Well, it you say it doesn't apply. Maybe it never has happened. I don't know
whether it has  ever happened. When will Palestinians in the West Bank have the
same rights as Israelis in the West  Bank? Are you talking about the ones that
live in the Palestinian Authority? I'm talking about  people who live in the
villages they grew up in, but changed hands, went from one government to 
another. whether they live under the Palestinian Authority government or whether
they live under  Israeli. If they live under area A, do you know the difference?
I do. I'm saying if they live  under area A, they live under the Palestinian
Authority government. They don't live under  Israeli government. What? But it's
controlled by the Israeli government completely. There's  no airport. They
control the utilities. I mean, this is it's silly. I understand there's a form
of  self-government, but the big decisions are made by the Israeli government.
Obviously, I've been  there. I know this. And you know it, too. So, how long
does this go on? You say that God gave  the nation of Israel the right to this
land. Why not just take it, declare it Israel, and make  everyone a citizen? I
don't understand why that's not happening. Well, you know what? There are 
people who think that that would be a much better think. I think it it very well
could be. And if  you ask certain people living in the PA under their very
corrupt government, where 91% of the  people think the government is hopelessly
corrupt, that's what the numbers are. They would tell you  that they would be
better off if the Israelis were the governing authority. Everyone gets voting 
rights. Would that be the case if they were all under Israeli authority? You
know, there are do  you you realize there are lots of ArabIsraelis? I know. And
they vote. Do you know they serve in  the Knesset? I'm very aware of that. And
I'm just wondering and they serve on the Supreme Court. And  did you know that
it was an Arab who sentenced a former president and prime minister to prison? I 
I know this. So the qu I just want to know what's going to happen. You know how
many Jews get to  help govern Saudi Arabia or Qatar or Syria? I I'm not
attacking Jews. It's a much more open  government in society and you make it
sound like that the Israeli sound that way. I'm just asking  I No, I am not
attacking the nation of Israel. I'm just wondering what the plan is. So, I've
been  hearing my whole life how bad the PA is. Okay, great. But what's the plan
here? So they're moving  all these Americans, people from around the world into
settlements subsidized by Americans in the  West Bank. No, they're not moving
them from around the world to the settlements. They're people who  make aliyah.
They come and these are is these are Israelis who live in Israel. Well, there
are a  lot of people and area C is Israel. Okay. Okay. But does it remain a
territory under military  control forever? Does it just become part of the
state? You talking about the Palestinian  Authority? Correct. That's the big
question. Do you believe in a two-state solution? And if  you do, I would I
would show you a map and I would ask you because this is u I don't know. I
don't  know what I think. I just think you need to treat people like human
beings and that's not happening  obviously. And that would be you don't glorify
their killing. Yeah. Let them go to their church  if they want. See the yellow
parts? Yeah. That's Palestinian Authority. The tan parts, that's  area B. That's
the area that is mixed. Israel has military authority, but the Palestinians can
live  anywhere they want to in there. And the blue area, that's area C. Area C
is Israel. And Israelis  can live in Israel. That's what it is. Now, when people
say they want a two-state solution, I  love to show them a map like this. And I
ask them, where does that state line up? There is no  continuous work. You know,
we've got a lot of states in the United States that need help. So,  I'm not
going to weigh in on other people's states to be totally honest. I just don't
want to pay for  it anymore and just want to fix our own country. But let me ask
you one last question, which is how  Christians are treated in Jerusalem. I've
talked to so many who've been spit on. Uh I so many  how many? Uh well, two
yesterday. Two. Okay. Yeah. Both Catholic clergy and both told me the  same
thing. Anglican clergy. I interviewed I just had dinner recently with a Greek uh
patriarch.  Well, there have been a million stories about this. Yeah, I know
there are instances where  Christians get heckled. Usually it's people who are
wearing clerical robes and they're wearing  crosses and it shouldn't happen.
It's horrible. It is bad for that to happen as it is to spit on  somebody
wearing a kip in New York City. Great. Terrible. It's horrible. And actually, I
should  to be fair, there is, and I just learned this, a Jewish Israeli group
that keeps track of  Christians being spit on in Jerusalem because they're
offended by it. And God bless them for  keeping track and for being offended by
it. But there are an awful lot of examples of that. And  my question to you,
you're against it. Of course, your Christian clergy horribly against it. What
is  that? And so is the prime minister, the president, the foreign minister. So
is I think every No one  would defend that thinking person. But what is it? Why
are they spitting on Christian? It's very  limited. It's very, very isolated.
Where does it come from? But for the most part, you know what?  As Christians,
we have freedom of movement here. Tucker, I go to church every Sunday. I play
bass  guitar in my church band. I get it. I don't get hassled being a Christian.
Everyone here knows  I'm the first evangelical to be ambassador to Israel. Do
you think they hate me here? No. Are  evangelicals recognized by the state of
Israel? Yeah, they are. Yeah. Okay. And and welcomed and  and appreciated. No,
but like as a as a religious like are there evangelical churches in Israel?  My
gosh, yes. There's 184,000 Christians in I know. I know. and much larger than
but there are  churches that are non-denominational evangelical here. Of course
there are and and it ranges  from when you say non-denominational some of them
are affiliated Baptist Assembly of God some  of them are truly non-
denominational Pentecostal some are messianic churches right where um most  of
the people are um ethnically Jewish but they are Messianic they believe in Jesus
there are a  lot of those churches and they're spread out all over Israel so um
but you don't Oh I there I know  a lot of Christians in Israel by the way us and
I, as I said, I really hope I can come back and  talk to more, but and come to
church with me. Oh, I definitely would love that. Why, and I mean it,  too. Why
would people spit on? Like, where does that come from? I think it's from an evil
heart.  Yeah. What else would it be? I agree. I mean, I don't think anybody
would ever spit on  another person, even if it was, you know, I don't care what
a person's religion is or what  a person's nationality is. I don't hate anybody.
I wouldn't spit on anybody. I wouldn't heckle  anyone. And I find it repulsive.
Nothing about it is defensible. I will say that the one, this  was off camera,
but I interviewed this Christian uh leader here and I said, "Oh, that's so
awful."  And he goes, "You know, I feel blessed because Jesus was spit on and
it's an opportunity for  humility for me." And I thought, "Wow, that's a
Christian." Let me tell you this. I've been coming  in and out of Jerusalem and
Israel for 50, well, soon to be 53 years. Before I came as ambassador,  I made
over a 100 trips here. I've never been spat on. I've never had someone yell at
me. Um, I've  never had an experience where I felt uncomfortable or that I was
unwelcome. Um, if you spit on  someone wearing a yamak in New York City, you go
right to jail. They would not put up with that  for one second. And they do put
up here because it still happens. I'm not sure they do go to jail  in New York
City. They should and they should go to jail here. I'm against it. I'm They
should go  to jail here. Amen. So, there were all these uh Christian ministers
who were brought over here,  evangelicals, in December. Uh and I think mostly to
attack me, but also probably they had other  Oh, they really weren't here to
attack you. I'm just joking. They were attacking me, but whatever.  Um and but
they were flown over by the state. the state paid for it and they had a
conference here.  I got one of the guides that they received when they arrived
and I think it's real and it says  don't preach about Jesus when you're in
Israel. We don't we don't allow that. Don't do that. Really?  Yeah. Why would a
Christian minister agree not to preach about Jesus? I'm not sure because I have 
I've never heard someone tell another Christian minister not to do that.
Interesting. Good. Well,  I was I was totally baffled. What would be the purpose
of going to church as a Christian if you  didn't talk about Jesus? Agree more.
Thank you. I can assure you that that the church I attend, we  talk about Jesus.
I mean, we pray in the name of Jesus. I don't get it. To anyone else outside
the  church, are you allowed like could I stand on the corner and just tell
people about Jesus here? You  could. I'm not saying you'd get applause or that
people Right. That's fine. But I'm But I'm saying  there are people that There's
no law against that though. Not that I'm aware of. The only laws that  that I
know of, you can't proitize someone under the age of 18. And you cannot offer
people things  of value in order to cause them to listen to your presentation.
For example, I can't say, "Hey, for  $10, would you let me give you this gospel
track and and scream at you?" Can't do that, right?  Uh I don't know if it's
enforced. I'm I'm not sure. I don't ever hear anyone arrested for it.  But there
no there's no law against just like preaching to people. walk down to the old
city,  you'll hear people, you know, out there preaching on the street. Now, are
they effective? I don't  know. I'm not sure that people are stopping and falling
on their knees and saying, "This is what  I've been waiting for." I don't know.
But what I'm telling you is that the idea that you can't  say it. I know that
there are places in the rest of this region where you can't do that. For  sure.
Yeah. Cutter, you can't wear a cross in public. For sure. You can't pray in
public. I  see a lot of people wearing crosses in cutter, but in cutter, I don't
know. I have, but I don't  know what the laws are. Yeah. In Saudi Arabia, don't
think so. I doubt it. The one place is an  exception is the Amiradis, and I love
those folks because they are so um progressive and they're  doing so many things
to change the the template of things. They have a Abraham house that is it  is a
combination synagogue, church, and mosque. That's pretty amazing, isn't it? That
they have  the same building and they use it for all three of the major
religions of the world. And I think  that's incredible. Um, but they're really
trying to do things that are beyond what anyone else  in the region. They
changed their textbooks. They teach that Israel is not a nation they  should
hate or seek to annihilate. They've done some remarkable things. You've been
following  all this stuff in the I agree with that. They have a Hindu temple in
Abu Dhabi. You've been  following all this like hate the Muslim stuff going on
in the United States on the right. I I  hear some of it and it's uh it's
unpleasant. We shouldn't hate anybody. Amen. Yeah. It's not a  good thing. Hate
is a an evil thing. I I don't uh you know sometimes you say, "I don't support 
child killing." Okay, I don't either. But I don't support hate in any form. I
think it's a horrible  thing. That is such a great standard and I want to hold
myself to that and thank you for saying that  out loud. I don't hate you. I hope
not. Governor, ambassador, thank you very much for spending  all this time. I
appreciate it. I'm glad you came. Please come back. I will go with me to  some
places and a church. I want you to see that as Christians, we're pretty free
here.  Amen. Appreciate it. Thank you. And welcome.